16 February 2009

WOMEN ARE INFERIOR

The last one was a killer
A sizzling forehand cross court, absolutely clueless Adam running in the wrong direction, crashed in to the crowd of Angels. He made a complete fool of himself. .
All Angels stood up chanting Lilith ....Lilith.... Lilith ....Lilith.... Lilith.
Breaking through the loud cheers came the voice of Lord God the chair umpire
' Love Forty' .... as Adam walked back to serve the last point.
Lilith waiting to receive on match point.

The garden of Eden shook with the relentless chanting of the Angels.
'Quiet please' said God Almighty. The chanting continued
Lilith ...Lilith ....Lilith....Lilith
As she waited for Adam to serve.
it happened in a fraction of a second, Adam's serve and a blistering backhand return which narrowly missed Adams ear who was rushing to the net.

Thunderous applause shattered the clouds, cheering chanting crowd of
Angels was rushing towards Lilith.

Came the booming voice of Lord God the chair umpire
'Game, set and Match to Miss Lilith'. No one heard him
Lilith was surrounded by the Angels signing autographs.

'Miss Lilith wins by three sets to love, six love, six love, six love'.

Adam went up to God
What do you mean she won huh ? i said five sets.... five

'Its over Adam' said Lord God Almighty

'We have not played five sets'

'oh deeah !' said Lilith still signing the autographs.

'i want to play five sets' screamed Adam

Why do you want to humiliate yourself Adam ? asked God

Humli what ?

'hu ...mi....liate' said God aloud

'don't use big words God'

'Humiliate is not a big word daddy' said Lilith smiling

'She is calling me daddy, tell her to stop calling me daddy she is my wife for
godssake !'

'Not any more Brother' said Lilith

'Now she is calling me brother, whats wrong with this woman ??' moaned Adam
God was puzzled too.


Who are these characters ?

you know who God is, and you know who Adam is, and all the Angels
but who is this Lilith ??

yea, who is this Lilith ?

Well, According to the ORRRIGINAL, the very first account of Genesis, Lilith is Adam's wife.

Adam's first wife ?

Surprised ?
Yes she is, the first wife.
please google Lilith for more information.
not now, not now, later....... please read on.

You don't need a super brain to know that Genesis is a cock and bull story
written by people with very poor imagination. A six year old girl would come
up with a better story.
We are talking about a thousand years before Gilgamesh, which makes it roughly 6000 years. Not more.

This is how it went.

God makes heaven and earth. thats fine, its still in the Bible.

Then God says 'let there be light' and there is light, which is fine toos,
still there in the Bible.

Fine ?? na... na, not fine, not fine,
a five year old kid would have switched the lights on before making heaven and earth. We probably would have enjoyed a better world.

Here comes the trouble.

God makes man and woman in his own image, male and female, same day
same moment and out of same material, dust, earth or clay, same thing.
Adam and Lilith.

So God makes man and woman as equals.

Equality of man and woman was the trouble.
This was not acceptable after a few centuries

so what do we do with this woman Lilith ? Do we erase her ?
Erasing was not possible after Lilith had become an icon.

What do we do to a strong willed, independant, determined and intelligent
woman ?

We brand her as Evil. Such a brilliant woman is considered a threat to the
society. Men hate her and do not treat her as an equal
and even women do not tolerate her. They weave some scandal about her, accuse her of loose morals, fictitious crimes, banish her or burn her.
History is littered with such stories of brilliant women ending up at the stake.

Why are the other women inferior ?
Bikkaas they WANT to be inferior
Their God says so
Their religion says so.

So the story of Genesis is re written. The original writer is a decent guy who
made man and woman equal.

Now the revised Genesis is written to make woman inferior to Man. Now you can see how all three mono-theistic religions are founded on a lie. Judaism Christianity and Islam

Lilith is brilliant, gets top marks in all the subjects, where as Adam fails in
Maths physics and biology and even history. There was not much history
anyway. All he had to do was to study just 2 days of history and he flunks
even in that.

Lilith walks out on Adam, makes a regulation call, calls God from a pay phone

God had de-activated her SIM and cancelled VISA card.
No more shopping, God is angry and Adam devastated.

Calling God
Its ringing

Recorded in Fairy Maire Brennan's beautiful voice Lilith gets God's answering
machine instead

Welcome to G.D.S, God's Devine Services.

Press 1 for mass murder.
Press 2 for Kidnapping rape and torture
Press 3 for epidemic
Press 4 for Floods and Tsunami
Press 5 for Hurricane tornado and cyclone
Press 6 for earthquakes And GOD LOVES YOU

Lilith says WOW ! hangs up in disgust.

According to revised Genesis, God sends three Angels to fetch her. But she
refuses to come back.

So, the first wedding in heaven ends up in a disaster.

the reason ?

Lilith refuses to be submissive and refuses to obey Adam.

Adam is a dum gai. How can an independant and a brilliant woman be
submissive to a dum dum ?
She is not an inferior.
There are many stories of Lilith and what happened to her. One of them is she joins the Devil. They couldn't think of anything good for her. A brilliant woman will always be associated with Evil and the Devil.
Stupid society.

God is surprised when FedEx deliver a thick envelop, God signs on the clip
board, Thank you God says the FedEX man.

What is that ? Adam wants to know

Shut up you fool says God while reading the contents of the envelop
You have lost your wife you moron, says God, these are the divorce papers
your wife wants you to sign, Devil is her lawyer.

God is furious, calls Devil immediately but gets Devil's answering machine.

Welcome to DDS, Devil's Devine services

Press 1 for Genocide
Press 2 for kidnapping.........

dear God ! i don't believe this
What God why are you calling yourself ?
'Dear God' is an expression you idiot.

Why are you so pissed ?

Lissen to this.. God hands him the mobile

Press 6 for earthquakes
What ?

This stupid Devil is offering the same services as I do, you idiot, that bone
head, my favourite Angel, i taught him all the tricks and now he is out to ruin
my business. I'll wring his little neck if i can lay my hands on him, I'll tear him
to pieces and feed his flesh to the dogs,

Devil comes on line

Hi My sweet little Devilee, How sweet of you ! my dear cute fellow,
EEEEEEEEEEEEEE i miss you so much, you were my favourite Angel,
How are you Devilee ?

i yam hothey ( i am ok )

'Any new Adventures my dear little sweet Devilee ?

Gaath you all velly velly bath (God you are very very bad)

We need to talk my dear sweet Devilee, oh i have some fresh mangos, i'll
send them over, why don't we meet for Dinner ? I can slaughter a few Angels and fry them for you. You love Angel fry i know, many of my Angels are missing.

whaath all you thaying Gaath ?? (what are you saying God ?)
i yam dulooling all-lethy (i am drooling already) says the Devil,
all you thillying thoo belybe me ? ( are you trying to bribe me ?)

Where is Lilith ? Can i tok to her ?

Thees lite heeyal thitthing by my thyth (she is right here, sitting by my side)

i want to talk to her my sweet little fellow .. Said God

folget about hull gaath, thees mine ( forget about her God, she's mine)

The revised Genesis says
God made heaven and earth
God said let there be light and there was light
and God made man out of dust, earth what ever
Then out of Adam's rib makes a woman
Now she is not an equal, she is an inferior, submissive obedient woman.
All are happy. No mention of his first wife

i'll tell you how researchers traced the origin of Lilith in the comments, this is
getting too long.

They depict Eve as stupid and inferior ( though Adam continues to be a certified moron, maha dimwit)

They made one big mistake, i'll tell you in the comments.

The sin is committed, Eve is blamed for the downfall of mankind and women
is cursed by ALL LOVING GOD

"To the woman He said, 'I will greatly multiply your pain and your
conception,'" literally. "'In pain you shall bring forth children; yet your desire
shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you"

"women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak,
but must be in submission, as the Law says.
If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands
at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
(1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35)
Lot more venom about women, i'll tell you later. i'll give you exact quotes.

What about other religions ?
None better

"By a girl, by a young woman, or even by an aged one, nothing must be done
independently, even in her own house. In childhood a female must be subject to her father, in youth to her husband, when her lord is dead to her sons; a woman must never be independent". (Laws of Manu, V, 147-8).
This is Hinduism, says lot worse in fact.

Women suffer the most in all countries under Islamic rule, the treatment of women is pathetic. They follow the same story of Genesis. Though Islam claims equality but never practiced.
why ?
because women want to be inferior.
When it comes to division of property, Islamic laws are grossly unfair to women.

Buddhism is very clearly misogynist.
Buddhist monks act as though they sprang from the earth like vegetables
What is the role of women in Buddhism ?
What women ?
These chaps are not even aware that they have mothers and sisters.
They say nothing. Women are not worthy of any consideration.
Though there are no dumb and stupid statement you find in the Bible.

Am i asking women to abandon their family life and take up guns and fight ?
No, i am asking them to let go of this inferiority created by religion they are
clinging to and let go of this God. The doors will open for them.
i am asking them to learn from nature. The entire planet is run and managed
by the female species. Women are more intelligent, emotionally stronger
than men and more creative, though not much creative work comes from
them as they are not free and have no time or oppertunity to express themselves.
And Women are non violent.

Tell me which woman would advise making of nukes, chemical and biological weapons which will wipe out all forms of life from this planet ?
We are sleeping on thousands of such weapons

Our world is in a mess now, human race is facing extinction. Its time for a
change in management.

As a boy i fought and defended my mom and sisters from the tyranny of my
father. i have been fighting for others ever since, there have been threats to my life.
Now i am old, weak and defeated.
i am tired, i am very tired.

After being thrown out of the garden of Eden, there was a significant
improvement in Adam, now he could count till ten.


96 comments:

mystic rose said...

Aboslutely sizzling post. I am laughing, at the style and the humor in which you communicated this. But it is a very serious issue, what you write is so true.
Even if one were religious, spriitual, one would still have to question, what God? who are these people who wrote what they did, where is the evidence of all that they have written? What do I se with my own eyes? Centuries of misery that we are only just coming out of. And yet India was not always like that. I think it depended on the people themselves, isnt it? On their own intellect, when we can have the cleverness to be sly or cunning in everyday lives, why not the cleverness to question this as well? It is just that many, even women, used this to their own advantage when needed. Perhaps we women should file a class action suit, with the devil as our lawayer? :)

and yet you are right, woman, that mothering quality is what runs this world. and it would be a much better place if it were left to them.

I hereby name you the writer of our generation.

vishesh said...

Rauf this is powerful stuff...I am happy to be in your blog roll :) You have it very well..

what can I say,you actually make me feel like i am 17?

Ruth said...

This might be your best yet, rauf.

There is a fantasy novel by George MacDonald, Scottish minister in the 1800s, called Lilith. I read it in college, hadn't heard of Adam's first wife before then. I don't remember much of it now, but wiki says MacDonald might have been saying in it that everyone in the world will be saved. (Oh dear, no exclusive club!) I do know MacDonald was kicked out of the Church of Scotland for not believing in Hell.

I love the origin of the word 'hysteria' - that certain nervous disorders were linked to the female womb. Only women could be hysterical. But you proved here that men can be hysterically funny. :D

Nautankey said...

Oh my god :D this is AWESOME rauf :).I am lot for words. I have also read about other gospels which were rejected by rome,those were pretty whacky ones it seems..wish they had them in the list :)

laura said...

Thank you, Rauf; I'll be forwarding this passionate tirade to my friends!
This is why I have been an atheist all my life ... I am convinced I was born that way and have been happily impervious to any religious instruction ever since!

Ruth said...

Thank ye for the fairy Maire Brennan's name. I'm listening on YouTube to 'Change My World.'

Two words: GOR GEOUS.

Winnie the poohi said...

You are so good!

I love your template!

Please do tell if you designed it yourself!

And this story was excellent.. blog rolling you! I am a certified fan!

Anonymous said...

Im suprized that you have all this in you... There is more story than your lense keep them coming


Nasra

Karin said...

Thank you Rauf :)

Gwen Buchanan said...

Oh my!! Rauf I watched an article on the National News last night about a city of widows. called "Widows of Vrindavan"

here is the link... http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/internationalus/widows_of_vrindavan.html


I couldn't believe it.. I kept thinking this is what Rauf is trying to get through my thick head... I saw it with my own eyes(if only virtually).. I hear your words.. What an enormonity to overcome.. It boggles my mind.. I have had freedom all my life... I just can't understand why religion stands in the way of others Freedom.. ..

so Religion is really a Power-Trip for certain individuals who are all playing God.. they have turned it all Evil!

That was a superb story you told!!! Thank you!

mystic rose said...

Did you just graduate from Michigan State?

rauf said...

yeth yeth Mitthik Loth i will pyte your thase (Yes Yes MYSTIC ROSE, i will fight your case)
i am the Devil here. Yes my friends tell me that i could have been a good lawyer which is not a compliment.

i do not bow my head to any one, any God, i will never ever, ever never, never. If there is anything that is worth worshiping in the universe, it is the Mother. Motherhood. That is my next post Mystic. I will bow my head to any mother in this world. i am a big trubbal myself also also Mystic as i pick up fights with them when they don't realise how sacred they themselves are. i remember i picked up fights with you too. i have always hated touching any one's feet, but i will touch the feet of a mother even if she is 18 years old. (we get lot younger here in India as you know. My mom was just 16, she was married at 14). In my worship i will include even those women who crave to be a mother but couldn't. Craving and longing to be a mother itself is worth worshiping.

And what God has to say about this sacred motherhood ? It makes me very angry Mystic. God's curse to motherhood is so insulting that it makes my blood boil. i will throw such a God out of the window and throw all the holy and sacred texts out of the other, i have 2 windows Mystic.

wildpic said...

wowweve ... ruuff, fireeedum.
i always wanted to ask u what u thought of michel'o angelo ?

rauf said...

And MYSTIC ROSE, i am sitting here completely charred, jet black, burnt out of jealousy after reading your post. i wish i had such a magical flow of narration, the gentle warm rain drops of words. if you call me the writer of this generation, i have to throw all the lights on you and take your picture. Whats wrong with you ? can't you see what a terrible writer i am ? Along with this God i am murdering the language also.
This is a suicide post Mystic.

oh ! the t-shirt i am wearing is a gift from Ruth. i am pretending to be intelligent.

rauf said...

Hi SURESH, i got into this 'do nothing mode' just feeling lazy. yea i read your question in your blog also also.

Michel Angelo was completely sold. Completely. For all the wrong reasons unfortunately. As a result we have his masterpieces. Calling his work as a masterpiece is an insult to his work which was clearly on a higher level.

Miki was never an individual, He was a liquid called devotion. Nothing else existed for him. He connected directly with God. Completely sold, i repeat. Wrong number, poor chap. Though the pope commissioned him but he never considered working for the pope, he worked for God. All that he did was for God. We don't see the devotion, we see only the result of his devotion. We don't see this God but we see the result of this God, love hatred bloodshed, intolerance, kindness compassion art, music literature.
We don't see the the sub atomic particles, only the impact has been recorded on the plate. We see the result of the invisible particles, we see the result of quantum mechanics, your mobile, your iPod, TV, radio, and the thing i am typing, my computer, this internet.
Hope Malini and Sara are fine Suresh, all my love.

rauf said...

SURESH, in fact the best and the worst has come out of this non existent God.

rauf said...

In particular i kept you in mind while writing this post VISHESH, and the other children who read my blog. The actual reasons cited for Adam and Lilith break up are pretty nasty and unprintable. They go like cheap adult x rated movie. More over the post was getting too long.

God, Adam Lilith, Eve the Satan, the whole Genesis is fiction. but it was written, that is a fact. Ram Sita, Ravan the whole Ramayan is fiction but Valmiki is a fact. See what this Wikipedia does. Being an encyclopaedia they are obligated not to withhold any information.
Lilith being Adam's first wife should be at the top. Its vital. From being the first woman she goes on to be evil and many stories are connected to Sumerian, Assyrian civilisation legends. Though Wikipedia talks about God, first man and first woman but they don't want you to read it, very tricky thing, they bury this vital information under a pile of junk.

rauf said...

oh i would love to have that book RUTH, Actually the whole thing came into light because of an over sight of the people who rewrote the Bible (according to their fancy) and it kept changing.
Lilith was completely erased from the Bible. But they forgot to remove one passage Isaiah 3:14-15 where the name Lilith appears. By then there was no Lilith, no Adam's first wife no Divorce, no legends, no story anywhere else. All erased and forgotten. And the name of Eve was at the receiving end of all the venom. They had some name to throw their darts on, Eve, poor thing (women). But in that passage Isaiah 3:14-15, one name was hanging loose with absolutely no connection. Who is she was the question. The researchers got busy and traced her back to the origin of Genesis. There are many many such discrepancies, unrelated unconnected passages found in the Bible. Their connections fell through the cracks. There are hundreds of such discrepancies in the Bible. All the ancient texts before Gilgamesh were written on clay tablets, only fragments of such tablets exist. Gilgamesh is still intact and very carefully preserved in some museum. The Legend of Lilith appears in that, though not as Adam's wife. There is a great deal of confusion such as,

Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the East of Eden.

Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; -- --

From where does the wife come from and who are the other people in the land of Nod other than Adam eve Cain and Abel

i don't have to remember the truth, but i have to remember where i lied. The people who wrote such stories forgot where they lied. In fact Ruth, the whole thing is a lie. But it gets ridiculous when people try to bring logic in to those lies.

rauf said...

Aha NATTU NAUTANK, Sorry i am staring at the wall mode. Doing absolutely nothing in fact. Just feeling lazy.

oh yes you are absolutely right. Jesus said 'upon this rock I will build my Church' That Rock was St. Peter, the most important and the most trusted of all the Apostles. But his gospel was not worthy of being included in the New Testament, because it contradicts with the other gospels. In fact Christianity hangs on Resurrection.
No Resurrection, no Christianity. Now there are doubts about Jesus dying at the cross. The Apostles were not professional writers. One thing we have to accept that the Bible is a terrific piece of literature. All the versus are very deftly composed by professional writers 50 to 100 years after the Crucifixion. There was no Resurrection, no Easter till then. It was added 200 years later.
Please watch this BBC documentary on Youtube 'did Jesus die at the cross'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BDZbG7bbAc
This is in four parts i think this is the link to the first part. BBC will not take chances to go against well established faith unless they are sure.

rauf said...

NATTU NAUTANK Now i have to go for a wedding of my neighbour's son to our local Church. The Priest there would be so ignorant of the facts. They don't want to know the truth. i am not going to ask any questions, don't worry, i intend to get back home in one piece.

mystic rose said...

No you arent sitting here completely charred, jet black, burnt out of jealousy dear rauf ji. Your style is simple, straightforward and you like to rattle people's mandas just to put some sense into them . :)

My head is in the clouds, thats all.

Ranit said...

hmmm... Sorry guys for spoiling the party... This is what I have to say on this.. my ramblings are pretty long, so read it if you have time and patience to go through it. :)

This sounds like men and women are competitors... and misses the point that they are complimentary... I have always believed that a man and woman complete each other and should not compete with each other... the relation is as simple as a pen and a refill, and for some of our tech-oriented folks, hardware and software... :) Do we ever debate over that? Then, why debate over whether women are inferior or men are?

I agree that throughout history, women have been suppressed, oppressed, depressed... and it continues to be like that... really sad... but isn't the below article making the man and woman distance further?

Now talking of Bible: The Bible says that a woman is a helper for a man. It certainly sounds inferior... but wait before jumping to a conclusion, listen to this. The word helper appears 11 times in the Bible; once it is used for woman and 10 times it is used for God (e.g. Heb 13:6, PS 118:6, PS 146:5). So what do you say now?

Also, God just simply ignored man when he wanted to bring the savior or mankind into this world!! He used a woman! Jesus was born of a virgin Mary by the union of God's spirit. Why would Bible say such a thing if religion has a secret agenda of making women inferior?

Now about Lillith: Bible does not have a direct reference of Lillith. Possibly Genesis was rewritten to erase all references of her... could be true... but if this could be true, then logically this could be untrue also because Lillith started to appear in documents from 10th century onwards... she could be nothing but a figment of imagination of an overzealous writer... How fair is it use her cooked up story to question Bible? By the way, if you google Lillith to know her story, you should also google for "history of bible" and see for yourself that Bible is a book written in 1600 years, in four continents, by 50-60 writers. And all of these writers have written Bible with one integrated theme. :) Is it possible to write something like this without a divine interference. I mean, today, in the age of information, if you select 5 random writers and ask them to write on the same topic, what's the possibility that they will agree on all aspects and write an integrated account?

Now about Biblical references to women: The post below refers to 1 Cor 14: 34-35 and claims that this is what religion thinks about women. However, it fails to point out the context in which this was written. Without going into details, if you read a few verses above this verse (1 Cor 14:26: What should you do then, brothers and sisters? 11 When you come together, each one has a song, has a lesson, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all these things be done for the strengthening of the church.) Did you notice the word sisters there? Let's look at a few verses later (1 Cor 14:39: So then, brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid anyone from speaking in tongues.) oops sisters again!! hmmm.. The writer is not writing to men only, right?

So why verses 34 and 35 say such a thing about women? hmmm.. let's see: The answer is in the verse 40 (And do everything in a decent and orderly manner.) This is the reason. The book of Corinthians is actually a letter written to the church of Corinthians. In this church, there were many women who used to unnecessarily shout and create chaos in the church. So verses 34 and 35 is for them, not women in general. It should be looked at in that context.

Your post refers to the punishment given to Eve for disobeying God. But it does not talks about the punishment given to Adam: "Because you obeyed your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' cursed is the ground thanks to you; in painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. 3:18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, but you will eat the grain 55 of the field. 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat food until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you will return."
Did you notice the last thing: you are dust and dust you will return. So you decide, is God being partial to man here?

Yes there have been unjust behavior against women, in the name of religion, in the name of culture, tradition, and what not. But it has been done by people who twist the truth and use it to their advantage. People who show half the truth and interpret it to just prove their point because it sounds right to them.

Whatever I have said is of course my opinion, and in my opinion I strongly condemn this article because it urges you to not love your partner but compete with him/her. I request you to investigate the truth completely before getting influenced by such things.

For God's sake, love your partners and not compete with them!! As Bible says "The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a companion for him who corresponds to him."
-- Genesis 2:18

For clarity sake, the word companion here comes from the original Hebrew word 'ezer, which means "the one who does for us what we cannot do for ourselves, the one who meets our needs." That's what God's plan is for making man and woman -- to complete each other. If I someone had rewritten Genesis to prove that women are inferior to men, they would have deleted this verse, right?

If you have reached here. I thank you for reading this long reply.

and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
1 John 8:32

love, ranit

rauf said...

LAURA,
i am a Muslim, well i was, and i was nearly a fundamentalist when i was young, now i am 61. i have performed religious rites on many occasions and have led the prayers in our mosque.

i sound like a very unhappy man here in my blog. My life has been very smooth, with hardly any ups and downs and in fact i should be thankful for my health and peace of mind. In my late twenties i began to see the how absurd religion is and how it is an insult to human intelligence to believe in a God we have created. i was upset realising how religion has treated women with scant respect and all the confusion bloodshed it has created. i understand that faith offers intangible solace to troubled minds. But they don't understand that they are believing in a lie which is more damaging to the mind when their prayers fall on deaf ears of this non existent God. And when i saw the evil forces have always been powerful right through history, the creation of poverty by design of the society, i lost my faith and turned towards mother nature as my teacher.
Thank you Laura. Welcome to Daylight Again

rauf said...

oh RUTH, Maire Brennan is Enya's sister, sings for the family band 'Clannad'. i think she is Enya's sister. Now i am scratching my yeddu. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

rauf said...

POOHEEE, how sweet of you ! yes i designed it and 'Daylight again' is my handwriting which has gone shaky now as i am 61. It used to be good but very illegible, i couldn't read my own writing. My teacher once said that my writing is like a cat's scratching on the door.

it took me a while to grasp your pages Poohee, i am a certified dimwit. i'll read your stories in a couple of days. The template design of both 'Song of my life' and Random attempts at story telling are beautiful.

You are a happy girl Pooheee !

Winnie the poohi said...

ha ha ha! you have a nice sense of humour :D

I figured you to be much younger than 61 :)

I had illegible hand writing too.. still do.. though am not 61 yet ;)

Umm my teachers maintain I passed coz they knew I know the answers and not coz they cud read my answers.. thats a relief this blind faith in me i mean :D

Ohh I absolutely love all your blogs!

rauf said...

NASRA, i didn't quite understand your comment, if you mean my writing, i have to say that i am not a writer. Thank you for what ever you meant by your comment.

rauf said...

Dear KARIN, it is not my intention to hurt any one. i have been fighting against oppression of women since my younger days and i get to hurt lot of people. Blog has provided me a platform and i have been using it from past 3 years or so to write my views which my friends say are often hurtful. i see injustice almost every day here in my country and i am affected by it.

rauf said...

KARIN, kindly watch this Documentary which Gwen has suggested, you will get an idea of injustice caused by religious beliefs.

rauf said...

Dear GWEN, Religion has brought the best out of people, and once upon a time it really had a role to play. That was two thousand years ago. If we cling on to the ancient and out dated texts today, there must be something seriously wrong with the society. i am writing a post on that. This is turning out to be a boon for the psychiatrists. It is lack of mental strength that takes people towards religion which is nothing but a fake insurance package and people throw a lot of money hoping for security and you know where the money goes. Its been money all the way from past couple of thousand years. Religion is a very neat fraud. The chap who created God was an ordinary guy with poor imagination but the chap who created the Devil was a genius.

The Documentary is very painful to watch Gwen, thanks for the link and it is only a tip of the iceberg. Much atrocities are committed against women in India in the name of religion, Hinduism Islam and Christianity alike. And there are people who still keep defending their false beliefs.

rauf said...

Mr. RANIT,
Let me put you in a hypothetical situation.

you are a prophet. And you receive God's command to take away a child from a nursing mother and smash the child's head aginst a rock.
what would you do ?

a) would you obey God's command and smash the baby's head against a rock with the mother watching ?

b) would you show mercy on the mother, smash her head first before you smash the baby's head ?

c) would you tell your God to go take a hike ?

Would you go about explaining the context under which such a barbaric command was made ?

This command was made by God who claims to love you - period.
i will not accept any explaination Sir.
This is not my hypothesis, nor it is my imgination
This is your Bible.
This is not an isolated case of celebrated violence, infanticide and Genocide is spread all over your Holy Book.

Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction...Happy are those who seize your infants and dash them against the rocks (Isaiah : Psalms 137:8-9)

would you say this is just a suggestion from God and it was never carried out ?

Sir kindly picture yourself doing it.
Don't you think that the idea itself is revolting ?

Would you tell the mother that you were happy to smash her baby's head ? (The Bible)
Can you imagine the mother's agony ?
Do you understand what a mother is Sir ?
Do you understand motherhood ?
And God slaps a curse on all mothers ?

Your God is not cruel Sir
your God is a psychopath
Your God is a pervert.

i would hang my head in shame if i believed in such a God
i would hang my head in shame if i followed such a book
i would hang my head in shame if i followed such a religion.

i can fill these pages with barbaric, perverse and obscene passages from the Bible, thankfully i cannot do it, as children read this blog and the comments.

Upon receiving orders to remove certain books including Harry Potter from a school library in the US, the librarian suggested the removal of the Bible as well, as it is not suitable for children.

You can safely delete such uncomfortable passages and re write The Bible and say they never existed.
This is how you don't find Lilith in the Bible.

I Timothy 2:11-14, (New Testament)
" Let the women learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. and Adam was not deceived , but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Eve is blamed for the downfall of mankind, though both are punished.

Since the Bible is littered with insulting, barbaric and perverse passages about women, the story of "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" was fabricated and added to St. John's gospel after 400 years, it is not found in the original St. John's gospel.


Sir, would you go about explaining the context under which slavery was
condoned and promoted in the Bible ?
Would you go about finding the context for all the infanticide and genocide in the Bible ?

Let's see what Martin Luther (leader of the reformation movement, Protestant) has to say about motherhood. "If a woman grows weary and at last dies from child bearing it matters not. Let her die from bearing, she is there to do it."

You may say Martin Luther is not God, but he had a mother.
Unfortunately your God is a motherless lunatic. That explains everything.

No Sir, you do not spoil the party, A few Priests are my best friends, all are welcome, the religious, the Athiests, Alcoholics, drug addicts, fundamentalists, blind deaf dumb, Join the party Ranit, bring along your friends, Welcome to Daylight Again.

intelligentwins said...

yOU ARE SSSSOOOO SPECIAL UNCLE RAUF :)

rauf said...

illay dee MYSTIC, i don't understand yanything comebligated, you have to give me straight, Hittee me on my yeddu. odderwise it will not penetrate my manda. Your thoughts are incredibly delicate. Littal difficult, muchee difficult to enter the coconut.

rauf said...

EEEEEEEE POHEEE, the happy girl, i have odder three blogs, Blunt knife, Passion Green and Portraits, i puttees vonly vonly pictures there and i don't like posting just pictures
i like to design of the pages, i keep tinkering so i have not deleted dem. its a pain to have more than one blog.
Hopees you are doing finee and i knows you are happees.

rauf said...

OWEE sweeet NEERU, yenna dee suddenly ? Always worried about you dee. Oh ! its so wonderful to live in Sweden. Do you know 85% are non believers there ? Do you talk to the locals ? oh deeah, no no, Don't take chances with cold and please PLEEEEEESE don't forget to wear a cap.
All my love

Ruth said...

Wiki talks about Clannad, rauf, but not Enya being her sister.

rauf said...

owee ! Wiki are funny people RUTH.
you can't have a flourishing music career with names like these, Máire Ní Bhraonáin and Eithne Ní Bhraonáin, its a nightmare, i can't pronounce them, its Maire (moya) and Enya, they are sisters. couple of brothers are in their band Clannad.
Enya left very early. But they record together.

Gwen Buchanan said...

Rauf I totally agree with you!!!

rauf said...

Dear GWEN, i am actually making a fool of myself yelling at a God that doesn't exist. All the offensive, obscene, barbaric passages and the entire Bible is written by people to serve the interests of the elite. There is no God to write such rubbish. There are good things though. Subjugation of women was not their prime motive. All they wanted was sanctions for their evil deeds. Gain is the prime motive, through barbaric means. We have the same today, no change at all. Poor chap George did his best to be a messenger of God or a prophet. Said he received divine revelations 'God told me to invade Iraq'. We treated it as a joke. Perhaps Hitler received them too. All they wanted was to fool the people to believe that they have the blessings of God to indulge in genocide, rape loot pillage and capture of slaves, male female,for free labour and pleasure. No wonder even Jesus or Muhammad did not speak against slavery. There are rules in the Bible about slavery, a crime against humanity. Any one questioning the authority of Bible the word of God had to face death by torture or burnt at the stake.

Winnie the poohi said...

I can agree to that thought :)

I believe in god.. but in no text written by/for/to the almighty :)

Pretty Me!! said...

first time on ur blog and it was a pleasure !! interesting topic and well researched too ... will be back..

Ranit said...

Hi Rauf,
Thanks for calling me Mr. It feels good. No one has ever called me that. :)
Since you are not interested in taking any explanations, I am offering none.
Obviously, there are reasons for saying what you are saying—a few thousand books that you have read, a few thousand kms you have travelled, and few thousand experiences you have had.
Frankly, I have not even read 10 books and have stayed in the same city all my life. So I don’t stand a chance. However, I would rather die a believer and proven wrong, then die an atheist and proven right. That’s my choice; because, among other things, my faith has taught me to love… love abundantly… and that’s what I said in my response—love your partner and not compete with them.
“But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.”
-- Luke 6:27-28
That’s what my God teaches me.
And second thing I said: investigate the truth completely before getting influenced. I see nothing wrong with these two things…
As far as God’s existence is concerned, am not trying to convince anyone of anything. The verdict is out, God has been pronounced guilty, case closed.  But I think--It does not matter what a few hundred billion atheists feel about him. If he exists, he exists. There is nothing anyone can do if he does. And if he doesn’t, all believers are fools—and it does not matter if I am a fool.
Let’s build a society without God. Let’s throw all texts in trash, or burn them, or better still eat them. Let’s erase the notion of God from everyone’s mind. Ummm… let’s do something similar to what communists did in Russia. Let’s kill several thousand people for believing in God. Let’s torture them for several decades. We would definitely have a much improved “Godless” society.
Oops… I should not be sounding negative. If it went wrong once, it doesn’t mean it will go wrong every time. Am sure it will succeed. You know what our problem is? The problem is that we don’t take responsibility for what we have done. We twist the facts to our advantage and if something goes wrong, we blame someone else—God, Nazis, kingdoms, politicians, anyone. It’s not us!! It’s someone else—people who belong to a different ideology, different time, different species!! The truth is: It’s us!! We!! Period. So much for the human ego…
Yes I believe in Bible because it shows me truly what I am. It forces me to look inward; forces me to take responsibility. God or no God; it does not matter. I am responsible for what has gone wrong. That’s what my Bible teaches me. Since you know the Bible backwards, I don’t even need to give any references.
I see God’s amazing genius in his creation--The trees, the bulls, ants, worms, mountains, flowers, packing of a pomegranate, stars, planets, constellations, everything. I feel God when I taste each fruit, smell nature. Unfortunately, am not convinced that there is no cook for the wonderful feast I am enjoying. Unfortunately, I am not convinced that am here because of a chance because if I am here by a chance, what chance this chance has to know the truth?
I would rather stay away from the party… :)
Love ya,
ranit
PS: I could give explanation for each and every point you mentioned in your response, if you want that is. But frankly, I am preferring not to because the case is closed.

Anonymous said...

i think organized religions found a way to control people - by creating the 'battle of the sexes'. we need to realize that and band together - male and female - to beat these theologians. by fighting, by quoting the past, etc we are just playing into their hands.

Yogesh said...

Sir,

I was not aware that Adam had two wives.

I completely agree that women are far too stronger than man. No wonder we try dominate them.

I do agree that nothing should be blindly followed and question it. The same holds true for religion which definetly needs to change with the times we live in.

After all the so called messengers of God wrote the rules, of what they saw during their times and not the future.

You are not only a great photographer but knowledgeable too. Please keep sharing your knowledge :)

Claudia said...

Witty post, Rauf. I don't much care for religion or the bible or any other "sacred" texts. Maybe I should. Maybe one day. Not now, though. I really liked the caption under your picture :-) It's always good to see you.

rauf said...

Hi Sweet POOHEEES, They got it all wrong,i mean mono theistic religions, (Jews, Christians and Muslims) They couldn't get any deeper with the concept of God. They got stuck with the idea of creator maker and manager. They made a monster out of him. A dreadful, revengeful, spiteful, hostile destroying punishing burning killing thug.
And he also said 'i have loved you'

What the writers of the New Testament did was to take this stinking monster thug God to a petrol pump gave him a car wash, removed all the stink, gave him a neat hair cut, shave, and made him wear a designer suit and now he drives a Humvee, carries nukes and and biological weapons in his pocket.
He looks like a different God but actually he is the same falla. He bears his fangs and says I love you.

Other religions like Hinduism and Buddhism have gone a bit deeper in an attempt to understand life.

rauf said...

Hi PRETTY PRATIBHA, You the younger generation women are the hope for the future of mankind.
The word 'mankind' is highly objectionable Pratibha, i think 'human race is better. Please raise your voice against the weapons that would destroy all forms of life on this planet. Men have taken human race in to a 'self destruct mode'

Welcome to Daylight Again.

rauf said...

Mr.RANIT,
Thank you very much for helping me to open my mind further. i can see why you very badly need the guidance of this non existent God.

i see that you have taken the liberty of 'Closing the case' in a blog not managed by you, which in my opinion Sir, is unethical and unreasonable.

Unfortunately, reason and common sense are not supplied either by your Bible or your God.

Sir, the good news is, you are in majority and i belong to a microscopic minority. There are millions like you out there would would explain and defend the Nazi Holocaust, even the Christian church or the Vatican has not condemned it. you are in good company Mr. Ranit.

Yes i understand you can explain and defend all the barbarism, genocide absurdities and obscenities in the Bible as you have accepted them as your religion.

i stand alone without beliefs, i don't need any guidance of any God, book or any philosophy to love. i don't need any lamp post to lean on, or a wheel chair to move about. i can stand on my own moral strength.

Sir, it is impossible for me to 'love my enemies' for i have none. My common sense and reason teaches me not to make enemies in the first place.

And 'Love your enemies' is the most stupid statement i have ever heard.
And your God seems to be in dire need of some guidance Himself.

Truth is harsh and painful, Lies are pleasant and offer a great deal of comfort. i envy your joy and luxury Sir.

It is my misery that i chose reason over the bliss of lies.

This blog is open to all, no word veryfication, no limits, even the spam is welcome. My doors are always open.
Thank you Mr. Ranit.

rauf said...

CHINNA, we are already fallen in to their hands. They have been ruling for thousands of years now. i expect the gentle ladies to pull the human race out of their clutches.

rauf said...

Hi YOGESH,
Religion is a walking stick, religion is a wheel chair. We can do without it. Stand up and walk on our own strength. Its quite disturbing that the most educated and intelligent seek guidence from the books of fiction written thousands of years ago.

There was a time when people had to be told what is good and what is evil, what is right what is wrong.

If you give a book of rules and a book of laws, they will fail miserably.

The best way to tell them is by telling interesting stories. You have to draw their attention with your powerful narrative and oratory talents, the way Homer did. The stories of Iliad and Odyssey already existed, it was Homer's (he was blind) dramatic presentation which kept the audience spell bound. Greek and Roman mythology is very interesting and full of moral content. Those stories shaped the society. But today if any one believes that god Atlas is holding the world on his shoulders, offers sacrifices and prayers so that the god does not throw the world, he has to get his head examined.

Same with Ramayan and Mahbharat. Stories within stories that had some moral or the other, with the usual dose of Bollywood masala of sex and violence. They also had to sell the stories, and some obscenities for front benchers. Same with the Bible.

These stories were written to control the societies of some three thousand years ago or more. If we treat such cock and bull stories as sacred and continue to seek wisdom and guidance from them then something is seriously wrong with the society of today.

Thank you Yogesh, Welcome to Daylight again

rauf said...

Your belief is more important than mine dear CLAUDIA as you have the responsibility of bringing up dear Ana and Clara in an atmosphere free of any influence other than your own. Today children, specially girls are more environmentally conscious than they were in my generation. My generation was sold with the idea of some unknown fear and we accepted the presence of nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. Unfortunately my generation took pride in knowing about such weapons. Today's children will express their horror knowing about research and development of ideas which will destroy our world. Men are taking us towards extinction. Your children will be the saviors of the human race. They will lead us to safety.

The Preacherman said...

That, old bean, is supurb.

I was absolutely hooked from start to finish.

Thank you.

Winnie the poohi said...

Rauf I recently read a book called the Rozabal Line. You will love the way all the religion converges into some sense out in the book.

Do read it. Its a fiction but worth reading :)

rauf said...

Thank you PREACHER, hope all is going well with you
My love to Caz and Jax.

rauf said...

POOHEEES THE HAPPY GIRL, oh what a dream it is, all religions converging to one.
Let's look at the possibilities Poohees.

We take one God one Holy book and one leader, Jesus Christ, just one message. There are 34000 factions under one umbrella. Believe me. Each claiming that only their group will go to heaven and other will go to hell.

For instance Syrian Christians of Kottayam is a small community. Half my friends are from Kerala, many of them are Syrian Christians. There are more than a dozen factions clashing with each other within such a small community.

The presence of hundreds of religions each claiming to be the true path gives you an idea of confusion.

Let us assume there is religion called TINGA where all followers are healthy happy and prosperous, believe me Poohees, within a week all 7 billion of this world will follow Tingism and start worshiping Tingu God.

Yes i will look for the book Poohees.
Spread your Charm, make your friends happy.

Ranit said...

Sorry Rauf, I have no intention or intellect to manage your blog. :)

It's good to see reason and common sense coming from someone who is ALLERGIC TO INTELLIGENCE AND WISDOM.

I said the case is closed because you said that you will not take any explanations. However, if you want the case to remain open, I belive that Jesus is God.

http://www.y-jesus.com/index.php

This should help people who really want to investigate rather than believe in a nicely crafted series of declarations...

I just wish that we had a little less ego. :)

God bless you.

love, ranit

intelligentwins said...

Very true uncle! I know a few swedes and they are very kind and poised! they believe in being frank, trust, respect for each other and above all FREEDOM!its an interesting fact abt their non adherence to religious faith. may be thats y sweden is truly democratic and ieace prevails here! its nice to be here!!! a relief from what i saw in the United Kingdom! :D...

and don worry about me uncle! im aptly dressed when i go out! no chances with cold :) and my cap is so funny that i make atleast 5 ppl in the road laugh at me!! :D im not gonna change it! i like to make ppl laugh :D lol

rauf said...

POOHEEES, sorry i missed your comment in the previous post,
you had asked why people endure pain religiously.

i can pray sitting where i am but i climb a mountain to pray, most of the temples are built on top of mountains. People feel purified when they make some painful efforts.

Hinduism unfortunately has designed the society for the convenience of the rich. i need not explain further as i have written a lot about the cast system in many posts in the past. And you know about it Poohee. People endure pain and suffering religiously as they believe when they die they will be reborn in a higher cast. Christians and Muslims sincerely believe that their pain and suffering is a ticket to heaven. This is how religion cheats people Poohees. They remain poor religiously and suffer until they die.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Now this slave is not interested in freedom. He just wants to serve his earthly master because its God's command. Very clever. God promises him or Her a place in heaven(you know what a female slave is used for as long as she is young) The Bible makes it very convenient for the elite. You can guess who writes these commands.

Muslim women take pride being inferior. They don't want equality.
they are not interested. if they are inferior, obey their husbands, be child producing machines, washing machines all their lives, a ticket to heaven is guaranteed by Islam. They take any kind of abuse religiously.

rauf said...

SWEET NEERU, yes Sweden was the country where the prime minister used to go to his office traveling in a bus sitting next to you. But not any more after the assassination of Olaf Palme. Please mail me some pictures of you wearing your funny cap.

Have fun Neeru.
lots of love.

rauf said...

Mr. RANIT, Thank you for all the pleasure you are giving me. Frankly none of my friends agree with me, friends of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. They are spread in different parts of the world. i know my friends are keenly following this debate, though they take pleasure in telling me that they don't read my blog. And i know they are all with you Sir, You are not alone.

Your profile does not say where you live, i am in Chennai, if you Visit Chennai, my doors are always open for you.

Sir, i have carefully avoided any mention of wisdom and intelligence as i am allergic to both as you have noticed. It is the wise and the intelligent who have messed up this world and i urge women to rise and take up the management as the nature demands of them. A fact, completely ignored by all religions of this world.

An intelligent man can be unreasonable, a wise man can lack commonsense. Reason and commonsense have nothing to to with intelligence and wisdom. If the wise and intelligent had reason and commonsense, this world would become a paradise.

You are at liberty to believe anything you want Sir, You are at liberty to believe that our world is flat as it is God's word.

Sir, If you believe that this world is round and goes around the sun, you defy God's word and you are not a true Christian.

According to your God, our world has four corners supported by pillars with foundation. Using giant nuts and bolts, God has made this world very tight and immovable.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)


Sir, i would also request you to look around and see what is happening in the world. Main stream media avoids reporting it.

Church of England has tendered an apology to Charles Darwin.

Vatican accepts that this world is round in 1992, they accept that the Bible is wrong.

Vatican now accepts that evolution is no longer a theory but a fact, though they still connect it with the Bible and God.

The Vatican now says that the Bible should not be taken literally.
They say Bible is just an allegory.

People like you Sir, and the millions of others from past two thousand years have taken the Bible literally, as True word of God.

They have stabbed you Mr. Ranit.

Ranit said...

Rauf, What can I say... the following link clarifies some of the doubts: http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml Am sure if someone does a google search, they would find 1000s other links that have millions of other doubts/questions.
You have mentioned a couple of verses from the book of Job. I give you one verse from it that clarifies how earth is located in the space. He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing. -- Job 26:7 1 Chronicles 16:30 is actually: Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is established, it cannot be moved. It clearly refers to the world and not earth. Also, if you read this passage, it's metaphorical--it has things like let the earth be happy and sea shout. Obviously, it has to be read in context. :) Job 9:6 refers to earthquake. The corners in Isaiah 11:12 mean "wings" in Hebrew. They can be interpreted as directions.
I think we should not mix God and His followers. I mean people who follow (or pretend to) God may or may not align with him. It's the people who have done all the barbaric deeds. The blood shed by Christians in history could be far greater than any other religion and kingdom. However, that's how people (we) are. And that's why we need God.

Am sure these reasons are not sufficient for you or anyone else. You are hurt by religion and deeply hurt to see people suffer from it.
All I request is to investigate and then form an opinion. I can give you 1000s of verses from the Bible that talk about love, peace, equality, harmony, etc. You never talk about them. Instead, they seem to be an attempt to "face-lift" Christianity. If that's so, why would someone who wants a clean image let all the barbaric, perverse and obscene passages remain in the Bible? Am sure you will have counter arguments.
Really, I don't want to win this argument. And I respect the opinion that you have. I am a little more than half your age and most of the things I say come from faith and not fact. However, being an atheist, I expect you to at least state opinion as opinion and facts as facts. All I request is not to express your opinion as absolute truth. Actually, I shouldn't be doing that. You believe and express what you believe to be true. And I will believe what I believe to be true.
One more thing, I am in minority. :) Millions of people in this world are in confused state of mind. There are very few pure atheists and very few believers.
More later.

Love, ranit

rauf said...

Ah ! MR. RANIT, what an infinite source of pleasure you are.

The essential purpose of knowledge is to make us aware of our ignorance. More i know more ignorant i feel. This is the reason why i never call any one ignorant.

I call those ignorant who refuse to know, who refuse to open their windows and let light and fresh air in. Like you there are millions who choose to remain ignorant.

It is very clearly mentioned in the Bible that you can beat your slave to death and you go scottfree if the slave dies after 24 hours. And there are clear rules for slaves, Bible clearly allows raping of virgin slaves, its all written with clarity giving no room for wrong interpretation And yet
the vital information about earth's position is a vague statement ??
You make me smile Sir.

If it was already there in the Bible, why were thousands of people burnt to death ?? why Galileo was put under house arrest ? (They couldn't kill him because he was very influential) Vatican went on a killing burning spree for over 200 years on an attempt to put lid on the heliocentric theory. They burnt thousands of books and people on the streets all over Europe. Why would they do that if what Galileo said was already in the Bible ?

You can say it never happened.
You are at liberty to believe in any unscientific trash you fancy, and you can choose to remain ignorant Sir, i can say i don't care, i do care, because it concerns me as you are in majority and likes of you are running and destroying our world, taking human race towards extinction.

Ranit said...

hmmm.. you are probably referring to Exodus 21... Slavery as it existed under the Mosaic law has no modern parallel. Mosaic law did not originate but only regulated the already existing custom of slavery (Ex. 21:20, 21, 26, 27; Lev. 25:44-46; Josh. 9:6-27).

If interested, read this: http://net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Slave
Also, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_slavery

You keep switching between Bible and deeds people have done in the name of religion. That Job 26:7 exists is a reality. It is as real as people being burnt in the name of religion, even today.

Don't get me wrong. I am not justifying anything done in the name of religion. I strongly condemn all such acts.

You keep switching between existence of God, how absurd Bible is, and how ignorant/cruel its followers are. To me these are three separate points. The second and third point has no connection with the first point.

Sometimes you give an impression that you generally agree with the concept that God exists. If you don't, please don't jump back to points 2 and 3. What do you say?

rauf said...

Now i am getting tired of this debate Mr. RANIT, Its not entering, your windows are jammed.
i can't do anything if you chose ignorance as your religion.
Its your Choice.

God (created by men) - God's commands (written by men) - The actions - the result - the impact of actions and its justification are not separate issues, they are connected. Its one issue.

Since being religious you lack reason and commonsense, it doesn't penetrate, as mentioned earlier, your windows are jammed.

i repeat Sir, barbarism, absurdities, obscenities, atrocities, bloodshed (which you have accepted as religion and defend it), have created a lasting impact on the minds of women and they are refusing to come out of it.
This is the subject of this post.

i accuse other religions also for doing the same. But Christianity is the leader in this crime.

This is not my imagination. It is documented. i can't help if you choose to remain ignorant about it or you choose to defend the crimes against humanity. There are hundreds of websites, like you mentioned, doing the same.

i will not respond to any further ignorance Sir, you are at liberty to fill up my pages with your defense of crimes against humanity.

Ranit said...

Thanks Rauf for your tolerance.
Anyone reading through our conversation will know whose windows are jammed.

Some scientific proof of God's existence, if you are interested.
1. http://www.allaboutcreation.org/does-god-exist.htm
2. http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
3. http://www.doesgodexist.org/Pamphlets/Mansproof.html

I will not respond any further.

Have a great life and hope you are prepared to meet your creator, if He is there.

God bless you.

Winnie the poohi said...

I find the debates about does god exists totally wastage of time and energy..

For both are based on belief.. one has to believe or disbelieve no ?

it cannot be explained or proved..

rauf said...

No, Sweet POOHEES, i don't think its a waste of time or energy. i see the damage caused by such beliefs. i said in some comment above that i belong to a microscopic minority. A majority of 6 billion people of this world believe in God.
Don't you think thats wonderful ?
i would love to be proved wrong. This world should be a paradise then.
Is it ?
This is the beginning of the problems.
Which God ? and whose God ?
There you have it
All the bloodshed in history.
Believers in Same God killing each other.
Its been happening over and over again from past 6000 years.
It is happening now in some part of the world or other.
A single and sole cause
God.

Ranit said...

I agree with you Winnie. Adding to that--it does not matter if you or me believe or not. If he exists, he exists. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

However, one should not state their belief as ultimate truth.

tc,
ranit

wildpic said...

ting tong ... ting tong ... all souls and socks need a break from sweat ...

meanwhile on earth ... a crow sat on a wall and looked out for a 'vada' (fried lentle ball) ... wondering what its father and leader taught him ? ... "god does not exist but the self does, individuals dont exist but evolution does " ... " vada exists but the vain in desire doesnt" ... ting tong ting tong ...

rauf said...

The monkey is not dancing SURESH, Religion, belief in God is a product of evolution. It will get worse, we will be having more saints like George Bush in the future. That is not a good news.

Giant reptiles went on a rampage. Humans will go the same way.

Evolution has taken wrong turns before and it has rectified itself, humans is one such wrong turn.
'God' is a self destruct button created by the process of natural selection to save the planet.
This is the reason i chose to remain a monkey.

The planet has to save itself, it will not adhere to any moral code.
Before global warming can get us, we humans will kill each other.
Global warming is a wrong term Suresh, i think we need a better word.

The only hope is, rise of women power. Tell Malini and Sarah to get their backpacks ready, they have a job to do. Women will pull us out of extinction. With complete understanding of quantum mechanics, laws that govern nature and the universe, women will give us a completely new concept of God.
Only if women rise.

the day last human goes extinct, they will have a party.
The monkey will dance.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe - Einstein.

Have to go to Silent Valley Suresh, our frind has been calling me. Nancy was here last month.
give my love to Malini and Sarah.

Anonymous said...

wish all those commenting here knew you personally.

~S~

rauf said...

Oh ! Anonymous ~S~, is that a compliment ? or am i a monster of some kind ?
i know that i have been a big pain and big trouble to my family and friends all my life.

Normally 4 pages are allotted for each alphabet in any address book.
That is fine, this includes Q and X, hardly any names in X, The most crowded page is S, you run out of space very fast. i think 12 pages should be allotted for S alone, Then comes letter M i think, M gets crowded too.

Thank you ~S~ if its a compliment
and thank you if its not a compliment.

rauf said...

i mean the old fashioned hand written address book, not the computer or email address book

Nathalie said...

Dear Rauf, your writing is powerful (and fun too!) and the topic is a massive one.

I'd never heard of Lilith before and that was fascinating enough but the whole topic goes way beyond her. Of course the Bible and all the other books were never written or dictated by a God but written by humans with all the prejudices of their time and with all sorts of vested interests. It's about

time it were said LOUD AND CLEAR. These religious books are all about keeping women and lower classes in check (and gay people, and anyone trying to raise their head and be different or think for themselves).

Thank you for speaking up and being who you are, Rauf. The world needs more people like you.

Nathalie said...

I've just browsed (not actually read in full) through your exchanges with Ranit and he is quite right in saying that there are lots of beautiful words of love in the Bible. And there are also the atrocities and stupidities you mention. The reason for this is the book was written by men - poor little humans with their human limitations - and therefore is a mixture of good and bad, just like men are.

The book is a collection of the best and worse of mankind. It is so varied that anyone can find anything in it. Just pick what you're in the mood for !

Therefore I find the Bible of little interest apart from historical and the study of the human mind. I'm not going to let my life be ruled by stuff written by males 2000 years or even 800 years ago !

rauf said...

Dear NATHALI, i have stopped watching Fox News. Now i have stopped watching TV altogether. Not a sensible thing. But i have.

When i felt Fox News lied and supported lies and became a mouthpiece for the misdeeds of the Bush administration. i stopped.

If Bill O'Reilly says the sun rises from the east, i will not accept without verification.

That doesn't mean all that Fox News says are lies. They continue with true news reporting.

What happened here is, They lost credibility

You can apply the same to the Bible. It is a book of life, source of wisdom, inspiration and guidance. In such a sacred book, if i find a single sentence, single reference which is disrespectful to women, i will reject the whole thing and throw the Bible out of the window. The fact is, the Bible is littered with violence, barbarism, obscenities and insults to womanhood.
The Bible lost its credibility Though most of it contains passages of wisdom and it preaches love.

i am not isolating the Bible alone, all the other so called 'sacred books' do the same. Insulting womanhood.

What is most annoying is that people defend such absurdities. There are hundreds of websites doing that.

For instance, there are rules in Islam how to beat your wife. How absurd is that ? Can you imagine my anger Nathalie ? And people speak in defense of such barbaric sanctions with all their pride.

As a result of such absurd references and acts of barbarism sanctioned by God in the Bible, women still suffer from low esteem and refuse to come out of it.

rauf said...

i am tired of fighting NATHALIE, i am growing old and weak. The tragedy is that these people are ruling the world. i have given up the fight.
My next post is another sad story.

Ruth said...

For some time I have known you, rauf, almost 3 years now, hard to believe it’s been that long. It’s flown by. We have never met face to face, yet you are like my brother, well I consider you my brother, more than my own brothers. I talk with my blood brothers a few times in a year. You and I have an ongoing conversation.

Usually I agree with you. But on occasion we have had knock-down-drag-out arguments, the way brothers and sisters do. I’ve read and re-read your posts here at Daylight Again these 3 years. Sometimes I have felt exasperated, frustrated, wondered why you weren’t “more open.” “Why is that rauf so opinionated?” I asked myself.

So you posted this one, and I loved it, agreed with you. You know that I used to be a strong Christian, believed the world needed to be saved by Jesus. Before you came along I had left the church, went through different spiritual practices too. Generally we agree about religion. So that’s nice.

When Ranit left a comment, then you responded, then it continued, I read with interest. I could feel the tension, and I felt the two of you would not convince each other of anything, and even that maybe the argument was pointless. After one exchange I even said to myself, “that rauf is too closed-minded. He doesn’t have to be angry, just let Ranit have his views.”

Then it hit me, after the back-and-forth. Others argue about religion as an individual matter of personal faith. How can you argue with someone about that? But not you, rauf. You argue against religion because of the devastation (see the word “vast” there) from it. You aren’t merely arguing about personal faith. You’re arguing, angrily, because you, more than anyone I know, feel the weight of what people have suffered, not out of your own experience, though you have suffered yourself, but for others – women, the poor, all the oppressed.

This was a major revelation for me, and I was able to understand your anger, something I wanted to protect you from before. In my opinion, you were put on the earth to shout out for the world’s oppressed. Thanks for that light. As I’ve said to you before, your Life is a Prayer.

rauf said...

Dear RUTH, How do i treat a person who defends the act of ripping open a pregnant woman's stomach ? Do i treat him with courtesy ? No Ruth, i don't want to join the ranks of civilised people, i cannot smile at them, i would rather remain an uncivilised uncouth person. This is why i call myself a monkey. Such barbaric and insulting passages about women and motherhood make me angry and defending such passages makes me more angry.

Ruth, The best example of the damage caused by religion is India.
My country. People belonging to one single race. After much bloodshed India was divided. A separate country was given to Muslims. East and West Pakistan. Now all Muslims believing in same God had their own country. Blood shed started from day one. After more bloodshed, East Pakistan broke off. Blood shed continued in W Pakistan under flimsy democracy then under dictatorship. i have told you earlier Ruth, that the differences between Shia and Sunnies are political and not religious. They follow same God and follow same Khurraan, word by word, not a single word has been altered. And yet they are killing each other. today Pakistan is the most unsafe place in the world.

In Chennai, a lady gave me a ride in her air conditioned car. Suddenly a cyclist appeared from nowhere. She said these people don't deserve to live, they have no right to be on the road. Ruth, life in India looked so different through the windows of an air conditioned car. They are out of touch with reality, with life itself.

i belong to the streets Ruth, i see the damage, i experience it, what you see in 'slumdog' is just a tip of an iceberg. There are communal riots almost every day in some part of the country or the other. Where the minorities suffer the most damage. Christians have come under attack of late, People and Churches burnt.
The differences within Hindus are most astonishing. There are different factions within the highest cast. Same with the lowest, the worst affected. All in the name of God.

Winnie the poohi said...

Dear Rauf,

Unfortunately or fortunately I do believe in existence of god.. whichever name you want to call him with.. But I do not believe in any text or epic..

My reason to believe in god is very simple.. having god in my life makes it quite uncomplicated to me..

And I agree it is an illusion I am living it.. but why the hell not?

Besides I wud rather use my imagination to make my own god.. why wud I use someone elses imagination ?

But then I do believe that there is someone called god.. simply coz I want to believe in it.. no other reason :)

Does that make me unreasonable?

Anonymous said...

going through some of these exchanges - i had a brainwave. actually both sides - those who argue in favour of the holy books and those against - are actually on the same side! both are logical constructs - only the times when they were/are conceived is different.

for example, what we believe as equality of sexes today may be considered illogical in the future.

so i guess the idea is to be open to change.

nothing is absolute. there is no last word.

Ranit said...

As far as I am concerned, there is no debate around religion. Both Rauf and I agree that religion has done enough damage to our civilization.

The debate is whether God and religion are same or different. To me, they are different. To Rauf, they are same.

Religion, for me, is how someone interprets God. We have different religions because people have different images of God and everyone thinks that they have got it right. Even within a religion, people have a lot to say about what their "Gods" think about different issues. Some think that a good God has to be loving, merciful, and just. Others believe that God must rule with a stick in his hand and must have strict rules that people should follow--and they go and define rules on the behalf of their Gods. So people impose their ideas on others and fight. People kill each other in the name of God. People feel women are inferior and certain sections of the society should be suppressed. Then there are others who take advantages of these feelings. They rule by dividing people. I don't need to write more. Enough has been written about it.

During my brief interaction with Rauf, I have understood one thing. His image of God does not match with any of the religions. How can a God allow, agree, permit, and let these things. So his conclusion is there is no God. He chooses nature for worshiping because nature is closest to his definition of a supreme being. He just refuses to listen to any other argument.

However, I find it hard to believe that there is no God, that God doesn't exist outside religion, that God is responsible for everything that is happening in the name of religion.

I refuse to believe that their is no designer for this cosmos, that my DNA just happened by chance, that no one has made the scientific rules that nature follows, that I will cease to exist once I die.

Sometimes I wonder that if a baby inside the womb could think, she would wonder why the hell my limbs are growing, why the hell I have eyes, I don't need them. I am floating here, I am being supplied my food here-- what's the purpose of this growth. An unborn child can think like that because she doesn't know that she has to come to a different world where she would need all these things, where it makes perfect sense to have eyes, nose, and limbs--and that's why she must be prepared before she enters such a world.

In the same way, we grow and whither with age. Our limbs become weak, our teeth fall, our strength reduces. However, throughout our life we keep accumulating experiences, we keep learning, we keep becoming wiser. Why? What's the use of these things once we die. This brings me to this interesting question--will I cease to exist once I die. Is there another world waiting for me?

I think am getting distracted. Frankly, I don't have any right to be on this blog. And I came here because of just two points: I don't believe that men and women are competitors. I see that women are far strong mentally and emotionally. However, men are stronger physically. They are not in the same league and therefore should not compete. Instead, they should work together. This combination will work better than men ruling over women or women taking charge and saving us from extinction.

And the second point it: before being influenced by any idea, I have every right to investigate and believe what I want to believe.

With all due regards to Rauf's passion, beliefs, and thoughts, I have every right to think what if he is wrong... what if what he suggests is not the best thing to do... what if...

love, ranit

rauf said...

Sweet POOHEES, a few years ago girl from Berlin landed at my place, i don't remember who sent her to me, i have friends all over but none in Germany. She wanted to learn photography and wanted to travel with me. She was an art student. i took her around south India, Kerala being my favourite. Soon we became very close. She broke all the walls and i did my best to remain within my cocoon. i did my best to avoid unpleasant side of my country. She comes from one of the cleanest cities of the world and yet she was so comfortable with our garbage and stink, crowded trains chaos and all. she said she has come to experience life. i slapped restrictions on her as i didn't want a sick foreigner on my hand. but she was ready for all the roadside food i normally eat when i travel alone. She left happy and fulfilled.

No you are not unreasonable Poohees. What you are referring to is what Einstein called 'a personal god'
In the comment above, in response to Ruth's comment i mentioned looking at life through the windows of an air conditioned car.
Why not ?
But you are missing a lot and you are missing life itself.

You are at liberty to create your own illusion to pursue happiness. After all no one wants misery and suffering. To achieve that you have to insulate yourself and pretend that everything is rosy outside.
In other words you have to become insensitive to your surroundings.
This is a lie and lies are very comfortable and pleasant. and you are safe. But this lie is the truth you have created, your mind has created.

The sun is both pleasant and unpleasant. You are missing a lot protecting yourself with an umbrella, you have to experience the sting of the sun. You are at liberty to avoid it.

Poohees, there is nothing beyond our body and mind. there is no soul, Soul is a product of our mind. reason and emotion emerge out of a single source, the mind. Mind creates another Poohee and you look at yourself from the eyes of Poohee your mind created, you may call it your soul.

rauf said...

ANONYMOUS,
you are On the dot.
change.
but people refuse to change and cling on to outdated concepts.

please write your name Anonymous.

Indyeah said...

been visiting ever since Winnie mentioned your blog,blown away by this post,the first that I read here.
Blogrolled you promptly and now thought that I should comment too:)


an awesome post is all I can say,or maybe blown away would describe it better?

and your handwriting up there is beautiful:)

rauf said...

ABHI, its so good to see you here. i am smiling.

Its not because you have visited me for the first time, i feel like telling you about my life.

Though i am very rude and arrogant, i am normally very quick to apologise if i am wrong and i am always ready to change my views. i am not apologising here, all i can say i am sorry if you are religious and if my views here in the post and the comments have hurt your sentiments.

i do my best to present facts, i may be harsh and uncouth in presenting them as i don't like to be diplomatic and polite and act like a saint. It is not my intention to hurt any one or make any one happy.

Though i have led a happy life personally, it has always made me sad to see the treatment of women in the society. i grew up watching tears in my house. i fought for them from my childhood and i continued fighting and i became a big pain for my friends and the society.

i began to see things clearly after i shed all the heavy protection i was wearing, given to me by the religion i was following, imagine me going to sleep with a helmet on.
i threw everything and started enjoying the sun and the rain on my body. i gave up religion. i am a Muslim. But for some strange reason i continued enjoying love and affection from my family and friends in spite of my arrogance.

i saw the reasons for the misery of women. i have seen women taking pride in being inferior. i travel a lot, i go to Indian villages and forests of india, or whats left of them. Right from my childhood during my travels i saw women accept being inferior. i keep observing people in the trains and i saw boys and men getting all the comforts and women with babies adjusting. its women who have to adjust always. Then i speak up and pick up a fight. i am a big pain i tell you Abhi. Most of the time i get kicked on my face when women tell me that it is their duty to (dharm) sacrifice to make men comfortable.

This mindset was created by religion. i continued fighting but with very little success. i can't do anything when women want to be inferior. i have been protesting all my life. Now i have given up.

i have treated inferiority of women and female infanticide as environmental problems. this is the post written two years ago.
SPEED 13 - THE FINAL SAY

Thank you Abhi for visiting Daylight Again and i am still smiling.

Anonymous said...

Hello Uncle,
Fine debate indeed!
'The sin is committed, Eve is blamed for the downfall of mankind and women
is cursed by ALL LOVING GOD'
Surely God knew they would commit the sin.
Wonder why He created man...
love
benoy

rauf said...

Fundamental question They are stuck BENOY, Now people are busy defending God for all the stupidity.

Asokan's Exhibition in Ernakulam is on April 9th, nothing fixed yet. i'll he there a couple of days before. Asokan and i will be staying with dad. i'll call.

Indyeah said...

Rauf it is always a pleasure to come to your blog:)so let me say that I smiled and smile when I come here:)

No ,I am not offended because I am not religious and even if I was that still would be pretty foolish of me to get offended over such a brilliant post:)


You are right when you say, i have seen women taking pride in being inferior'' ''when women tell me that it is their duty to (dharm) sacrifice to make men comfortable.''

and also when you say,''its women who have to adjust always. ;;


Its so frustrating at times isnt it?

And no you are not rude..:)you sound like an adorable person ,one who fights for what he believes in..
what you call your arrogance is perhaps something else that makes your family and friends love you still:)

take care:))

Winnie the poohi said...

And I concur with Abhi totally.. its not arrogance.. its your umm force of life :)

rauf said...

So sweet of you ABHI, this is not a gender war, i am just talking about human stupidity. i have seen many talented women, i encourage them, i say please set aside a little bit of time for yourself. i am not asking you to ignore your responsibilities. Even their husbands agree with me. but no. they don't listen. i have seen some very understanding husbands and they demand nothing. in one case husband did not like his wife wearing a burqua. He liked his wife dressing well, a bit of fashion, bought her a lot of stuff, wanted to take her out, but she refused to have any outings, wanted to stay indoors and serve her husband as her religion tells her. The matter came to divorce but thankfully patched up.
Thank you Abhi and i'll be thanking you some more

rauf said...

Hi Happy POOHEES, what you doings ? Me caught up with a few tings, picture me runnin with clips all over my body.

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Sureshwho said...

Christ spread his message through parables, Rauf. Not much different from his writing!

RAMAYANA said...

Rauf, leading publishers do what's called editing, what's called window-dressing, what's called making it marketable to a larger audience.

No wonder we have the largest selling book ever! The one translated in the most languages. The one with franchised movies, serials, miniatures of the Protagonist!

RAMAYANA said...

Rauf, why be born again? I don't want to change the date God brought me to earth.