1 October 2010

BAD MOON RISING


oh deeah ! this is suicide.

In the year 2001 the Historians dropped BC and AD and replaced them with BCE and CE  officially.
No change in dates.

350 BC  (Before Christ) remains 350 BCE  (Before Common Era)
and 2010 AD (Anno Domini, the year of the Lord) remains 2010 CE (Common Era)

Our calender is called the Gregorian calender.   

In other words a Christian calender as it started with the birth of Jesus Christ. 
Not exactly true.
The Christian calender we all follow today,  actually began in the year 525 AD  or CE now, by a priest. 
i think he was a priest called Dennis the Short. 
He has a complex sounding name  dixys pixys somting, he was short, dwarf like. 
i am not sure of him being a priest or a monk.
i don't even know the difference between a priest and a monk.
Well,  he started our present calender in 525. AD or CE

Please remember, it did not begin with the birth of Christ, the year Zero, there was no year Zero.

After 1500 years historians decided to drop BC and AD 

Why ?
it makes no sense at all.

They say BC and AD are politically incorrect.

Why ?

The Gregorian or Christian calender, they say is followed by non Christians as well

quite true.

They say, the Christian Calender, BC (Before Christ) and  AD, the year of the Lord is offensive to non Christians, so politically incorrect.

What ?  i never heard of that !

i am not a Christian and the Calender never offended meeee !

The Hindus, Muslims, Chinese or Jews and others have their own Lunar Calenders 
which are completely useless for all practical purposes. 
They are used only to determine festivals, auspecious times or dates for weddings 
and no more.

Why Lunar Calenders ?

Simply because they did not know. Geography was not their major subject.
None had a PhD

The moon undergoes dramatic changes through the month,  as viewed from the Earth. 
Actually it is a piece of rock incapable of undergoing any fast and visible changes 
or emitting light and heat energy. 
It just reflects light from the Sun. 
People did not know that. 

There is no full moon, half moon, or a new moon.
If you remove the moon from the picture, nothing is missing
if you remove the sun, we are finished.
The Lunar calenders of different kinds are absurd and absolutely useless.

i asked a fire spitting Islamic fundamentalist his date of birth.
November 12th 1958 he said
oh !
he didn't tell me his date of birth according to Hijri, the Islamic lunar calender which he should have.

From past 1500 years we all, the people of all religions
were happily, willingly using the Christian Calender, 
BC and AD, 
without any objections, without any protests whatsoever. 
And we are still using it.

Then why  should any one be offended by Christian calender and the use of BC and AD ?

why is it politically incorrect to use BC and AD ?

they are not telling us the real reason.

Why is it incorrect ?

the real reason is, there is no historical record of Jesus Christ.
In Other words, Jesus simply did not exist.
So we cannot use BC and AD.

Do i have the audacity to say that a name which shaped and influenced the world from past 2000 years did not exist ?

Yes

and this is not my opinion. This is history.

Jesus Christ can't be a pure fiction
Perhaps some similar sounding nice kind soul existed who was crucified for calling Pontius Pilate a dimwit.

But the son of God, born to a virgin, who performed miracles,  crucified and resurrected,  did not exist.
  
The set of people who created Jesus Christ went a little overboard. 
They borrowed ideas from existing pagan stories.
If you look at the etymology of the names of days like Monday Tuesday 
or the names of the 12 months 
you'll find that most of them came from Pagan religions.

There is a big reason why they created Jesus Christ which i'll tell you in the comments.

This has been going on from past 50 years and i came to know only 30 years ago.
i kept quiet. It hurt me a lot.
it was difficult for me to accept. i refused to accept at first.
This came to me during difficult times when i was very religious  
and i was just beginning to question my faith, my beliefs 
and the reasons for my existence. 
It coincided with my giving up the job and wandering aimlessly, which continues till today.
My mom would have killed me had i told her that Jesus did not exist.
 
This is not the end of the story. There is more trouble to come.

Everything about Islam and Prophet Mohammad is recorded by the Historians in detail. 
About all his companions, the revelations, the growth of Islam, the Caliphate 
and all the wars, raids, bloodshed during and after the Prophet's life, everything is recorded in detail. 
Any one who claims that Islam is a religion of peace 
has not read the biography of the Prophet or has not read the History of Islam.

Now The Prophet and Islam are facts,  not a fiction.
Here comes the trouble.
The foundation of Islam rests on the Torah and the Bible and the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
Nearly half the Qurr'aan is the Bible and some Torah. You'll find all the Biblical stories appear there with some variations.
They all believe in the same G.O.D (God of the Desert) right from Adam Eve, Abraham  David Moses Jesus. 
They all did not exist.

There goes the religion, G.O.D,  It  all turns out to be a myth. 

That makes most of the people living on this planet believe in myths.

The Hindus are strange. 
They are well aware that their religion is a myth.  
That makes them  more thoughtless than the other myth believers.

Buddhism is just a philosophy. 
Buddha existed five centuries before Jesus. 
History records his life and teachings but not with exact dates of his birth and death.

Now you have a 6th century BCE Gautam Buddha 
and a 6th Century C.E Prophet Mohammad and both are recorded in history.  
In between falls Jesus Christ who is missing in the Historical records.

Myth or no myth, best and the worst has come out of religion.
The merits and demerits weigh nearly the same.

Let us see the impact of a name, Jesus Christ which is a myth.

From past 2000 years no other name has generated 
such phenomenal love kindness sacrifice and compassion in the world
like the name of Jesus Christ. 
The best in art music literature performing arts architecture came out of love of Jesus Christ. 
Most of the charity, in cash and kind, care for the suffering,
immediate aid to the victims of natural disasters comes out of love of Jesus Christ.
So what is wrong in believing in a harmless myth ?

The Atheists may ask are we not capable of generating love ?

No sir

Faith is a force. All Atheists put together can do nothing. 
All people of religion joined together can push the Himalayas to South India. 
Such is the power of faith.
i want Himalayas in my back yard. its so hot here.

Faith can be equally destructive as History tells us. 
Nearly all the bloodshed in the world is the result of love of God 
or the love of religious figures like Moses, Jesus or Mohammad, mythical or real.

We have a living example in Pakistan which is completely destroyed as a country. 
All believe in same God, all follow the same religion. 

what went wrong then ? 

The power went into the hands of religious fundamentalists. 
The country destroyed in the name of God. 
Now that country is further destroyed by nature's fury.

i accuse all the religions for condoning slavery. 

None of the religious figures condemned the slave trade.

Finally it was the love of Jesus Christ which brought an end to slavery.

It is the love of Jesus Christ in William Wilberforce 
which made him and his Church colleagues, fight for more than 25 years
in the British Parliament to outlaw slave trade in England. 
This marked the beginning of the end of slavery from the world. 
Took another 150 years to end slavery completely.

Myths have generated unimaginable amounts of money and activities. Used for both positive and negative ends. 
i would include 9/11 myth here.  It is difficult for any one to accept facts.

Truth is unpleasant, lies are comfortable. 
Myths are nice and pleasant.
The priest tells you what you want to hear.
i am right and you are wrong is a disease we all suffer from.
nothing makes sense.
The big picture is absurd.
It doesn't really matter who is right and who is wrong.
Be silly and be stupid
and be foolish.
it doesn't really matter.
all my love.

60 comments:

Claudia said...

My, what an inflamed post, rauf!

I believe religion (a set of beliefs concerning the origin and purpose of the universe) is a primary necessity of humans. Even self-proclaimed atheists and agnostics are religious in the end - their faith lies in science or some other building of rules that somewhere along the line relies on unprovable axioms that can only be accepted through some sort of faith. This set of beliefs - any set of beliefs - is obviously manmade, built carefully and gradually, tuned and fine-tuned during centuries.

Of course it's completely STUPID to drop the BC and AD but it isn't at all surprising. We live in a tremendously hypocrite and stupid politically-correct era when cleaning ladies are called hygiene technicians, prostitutes are sex workers, cooking is food technology,and the rubish dump is now the "Civic Amenity Centre."

Sorry to ramble a bit.

JulenaJo said...

Dear Rauf,
Your words moved me deeply today, as always. I am a Christian who is troubled by how much harm is done in the name of religion. I do see how much good is done, though, so I persist. I could never throw your words away and dismiss them, though, because your deep love of all humanity comes shining through them. Love is not a myth, whether or not Jesus was. Jesus--the man, the God, or the myth--said to love one another. That love is there in you, Rauf. Believe in Him or no, you are living his Word. Thank you for sharing your words with us today!

rauf said...

Dear CLAUDIA, Etymology on Monday is Moon's day and Tuesday is some god of the sky, January is some ancient Roman god, February is some ancient German festival, if we change all the names of the days and names of the months as they are not politically correct, it will make life very difficult. The world runs and hope and trust. Both hope and trust are politically incorrect.

i am all confused Claudia, nothing makes sense to me. i feel there is nothing wrong in believing in harmless myths. But we have to be aware of it. Take only the positive side of such myths. But unfortunately the negative side seems to be more powerful. What is more powerful is more attractive. Love seems to be less powerful and hatred more powerful. We all love to watch horror and disaster movies. Violence sells. We don't learn from history. it is not doing any us any good. But knowing history is very important. Our past reflects in every action.

rauf said...

i did not enjoy writing this post dear JULENA, i am sometimes very frustrated. i see suffering, hunger when the earth can still feed twice the number of people existing today. All believers of different myths, intolerant of each other, love to see others suffer. The best example is my own country India. You can see the worst kind of racism here.

i want my people go to heaven and i would love to see others going to hell. This is fine. when all my people go to heaven there will be intolerance there too. More trouble.

We have school run by different religious institutions who prefer taking children from their own community. there is injustice everywhere. There are no answers and religion and belief in myths is definitely no answer.

unconditional love is an answer Julena but unfortunately hatred seems to be more powerful. What will change us ? i do not know.

Ruth said...

EEEEEEEEEEEE.

That was a word I learned from rauf. After rauf started EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I wanted to start a religion called raufism. raufism would have many EEEEEEEEEEEs and any time I wanted to smile and didn't have anything else to say, I could just say EEEEEEEEEE.

This is the only religion that makes any sense. Sometimes I could feel why someone wants to start a following. I get a brilliant idea. I think OH! That is GOOD. Let me see if I can share it and someone else can think like me. Let me set up some rules and guidelines. Problem is, ruthism would be a tragedy, because ruth changes too fast. Rules would be set one day and change next week.

EEEEEEEEEEEEE. I like the raufeee ism better because it's no ism at all.

Ruth said...

Problem is - and it's a BIG problem - in order for raufism to be a religion, rauf would have to want followers. He doesn't.

EEEEEEEEEEEE

hehehehehe

Don't think I don't take this post seriously. I take it very seriously, and the years and decades of experience and thought that is behind it. I respect your way of thinking more than anyone's.

vishesh said...

heard of the story/fact that Jesus lived in India?

Anyway, I am a Hindu(everyone of every religion is a Hindu, because you see there is no definition of Hindu..the very idea of this Hindu is a modern idea-for political purposes of course), but I don't believe in idol worship.

rauf said...

i am just an observer sitting in a corner RUTH, i don't wish to be anything more than that.

Cults like David Koresh's spread very fast. He appeared on the cover of Times perhaps after his death or suicide. Jim Jones was another tragedy. i wonder how they get people to follow them. Completely brainwashed. Other religions are just a mild brainwash when compared to these cults. But the way your mind is controlled is something very scary.

there is nothing wrong if any one believes in a harmless myth. if it gives you some comfort, It is a personal choice Ruth. But there are hundreds of myths floating around intolerant of each other and they lose the ability to think for themselves. the TV also is a kind of religion brainwashing people.

rauf said...

i was not there 2000 years ago VISHESH, i rely on history and research findings. If they were sure why would any one go dig in to the past ?

The Vatican is disturbed over some research findings. there was no relief after Darwin' theory was published. Now the very existence of Jesus was in doubt. Many books like Da Vinci code, the BBC documentary 'Did Jesus die at the Cross' were tolerated with mild protests. Because the books, and BBC documentary at least keep the name of Jesus Alive.
Well some thing is better than nothing, when his existence itself is in doubt.

In some versions Jesus spent 13 years of his youth in India. the figure varies. BBC documentary says after escaping from the Romans, Jesus probably spent rest of his life in Kashmir.

The backbone of Christianity is sacrifice, Crucifixion, resurrection and ascent to the heaven. Any other story is not acceptable to the Christians.

According to Hinduism any one is a Hindu, including Atheists

Linda Sue said...

Brilliant Rauf! Religion-such a contrivance for people to pretend to understand the stuff that is too complex for them - scientifically-Religion holds "stories" that people can live with and feel better about dieing, thinking that something bigger cares enough about them to allow them to go on infinitely. People are all about comfort and control, thus we have stories, religion, faith, all of that which keeps some afloat on a specious pier. Thanks for this post!

Vagabonde said...

This is the type of post one could not publish where I live (I mean they could but they would not dare.) In the US South I’d say 80% idolize Jesus Christ; what is in the Bible is considered 100% correct. Trying to talk about it gets one nowhere. I tried.

The first time I went to Egypt to visit my cousins they took me to look at the tombs of ancient Egyptians and explained what these ancient Egyptians believed. The entire civilization of Ancient Egypt was based on religion – they had up to 2000 gods. Their civilization lasted about 3000 years. They were 100% sure of their religion. Where are they now? Under the sand of the desert? Or are they living in the other world as they believed? Who believes in the Ancient Egyptian religion now? Will current people believe the same as now by year 3000?

I think many people believe in their religion because that’s the way they were brought up – indoctrinated. What you are taught as a little baby stays in you, one way or another. People do not like to be told they are wrong, so they keep believing and not asking. You are courageous to speak up like this Rauf, most people are afraid to say anything.

kathi dunphy said...

A very interesting post Rauf... I am a Christian and sometimes the whole thing looks very improbable to me, other times it's altogether logical. There is too much intricate design and interconnectedness I think in the world of nature for it all to be accidental. Design points to a designer. I came to faith unexpectedly 30 years ago after reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. Lewis came reluctantly to a place of belief himself by a series of logical deductions, a fascinating read, it was. Darwins theory of evolution, that we evolve the traits we need for survival seemed to me to have some holes in it. Why do we have an appreciation for beauty? A sense of awe that takes our breath away? We didnt need that for survival. I think it is a gift to us from our designer.

freefalling said...

You are preaching to the converted in my case.
Religion makes my head hurt.

But, I don't agree with:
"The best in art music literature performing arts came out of love of Jesus Christ.
Most of the charity, in cash and kind, care for the suffering,
immediate aid to the victims of natural disasters comes out of love of Jesus Christ."

Nor do I agree with:
"Nearly all the bloodshed in the world is the result of love of God
or the love of religious figures like Moses, Jesus or Mohammad, mythical or real."

I think these things come from a very human place - the very best and worst of our hearts.

rauf said...

Thank you LINDA SUE, Your first visit and i really wish i had welcomed you to a more pleasant post.
Welcome to Daylight Again.

First let me explain the title of this post 'Bad moon rising' This is a CCR song which you must have heard.

We have no good moon or bad moon, auspicious day or inauspicious day. All days under the sun are same. Nothing more. It is very disturbing to see even highly educated people being very superstitious, more disturbing than the myths they believe. Specially in my country India where people don't take any important step without consulting an astrologer. Knowing the future is big business. A big racket, which all the religious institutions are involved. They guarantee a good future after death, yes it costs. Being a good citizen is not enough.

Though i don't follow any religion Linda, yet i refuse to join the all knowing bandwagon of the Atheists. i believe any myth any philosophy, however intangible it may be, which offers some solace, some comfort, is harmless. But it has also proved otherwise. Actually no one has any answers, though both Atheists and Theists claim to have all the answers.

Any religion has a main agenda, a side agenda and a hidden agenda. Main Agenda is to bring people under one umbrella. In other words, to control the society. Side agenda is dealing with the local existing problem of that period (like utter lawlessness and violence before Islam in Arab society) The hidden Agenda always is to protect the rich. In all societies Money is the ultimate God Linda Sue. Those who don't have the blessing of the money God are promised a better life after death to keep them from revolting. Life after death is the key to all religions as you have rightly said. Money rules everywhere, God or no God.

rauf said...

How true VAGABONDE! 3000 years and 2000 years put together are indeed less than 5 minutes for our 4.5 billion years old earth. Civilisations, beliefs come and go. Yesterdays belief is today's superstition and becomes tomorrows joke. Same will happen to all the religions of today. The earth will go on spinning.

How would you treat a very serious belief that god Atlas is holding the earth on his shoulders ? People used to pray and make offerings and sacrifices to please god Atlas so that he doesn't throw the earth away. The story of how god Hercules tricked god Atlas in shifting the burden of earth back to him is very amusing. We smile on hearing such stories today. Similar sacrifices and offerings were made to Sun God to appear tomorrow morning as people were afraid what if the Sun does not appear tomorrow. We hear of the role of soothsayers in Egyptian and Roman History. Those superstitions have faded away giving rise to new superstitions,
new religions which will fade away in time as you have said Vagabonde.
The Moon continues to play an important role today. Lunar calenders are still being followed
with newly cooked up superstitions. We in Tamil Nadu have our own Tamil Lunar calender. The entire month of Aadi is considered inauspicious. In the Islamic Lunar calender, comes the first month of mourning called Moharram and followed by an inauspicious month of Saffar. Knowledge has not helped one bit to shake away such beliefs. These will be overlapped by newly created myths. i have very little respect for Human intelligence Vagabonde. Because we humans fall prey to such myths. The key factor always remains death and life after death which the Pagans, Greek, Egyptians and Romans believed and this belief keeps changing its colours according to changing times.

rauf said...

oh KATHI, seeing you here after a long time. Daylight Again was in cold storage for a long time. i disappeared for nearly a whole year.

Yes indeed Darwin's theory is not perfect. But it no longer remains a theory as the Vatican puts it. It is compatible with the Bible is the official response of the Catholic Church. The Church of England last year tendered an official apology to Darwin. It takes time for them to wake up. Only in 1992 the Vatican accepted that the world is round and spinning about the Sun.

The Church is confused about what steps to be taken. They did not want to repeat the blunder of putting a lid on the Galileo factor. So they hired religious minded scientist to come up with ideas which will make the Bible compatible with the Darwin's theory. So they came up with the creationist theory which became popular for a while. The creationists were surprised when the Vatican disowned them.
Kathi, you must have heard of famous Dover Florida school case.
The Creationists are still hanging on nonetheless. Intelligent design came next.

Do you seriously believe that a mosquito is an Intelligent design Kathi ? or the Virus which kills thousands of people all over the world each year ? We keep hearing of different kinds of new Viruses every day.

i enjoy the splendour of nature. It is beautifully designed beyond words.
Can the same creator kill thousands of people with one giant wave ? Can the same creator bring the havoc of Katrina ? Floods earthquakes tornadoes cyclones in different parts of the world killing thousands ? Awesome nature has its own horrors. These horrors don't speak well of a Benevolent God Kathi. Recent floods killed hundreds and rendered thousands homeless in Pakistan. This too is an act of nature. These acts don't point towards an Intelligent Designer.

What ever it is, it hurts me to see the suffering and the poverty and it hurts me more when they are cheated by the religious institutions with false promises of a better life after death.

rauf said...

EEEEEEEEEEEEE LETTY GIRL How sweet ! Religion makes my head hurt too. In fact it makes my head spin like the Exorcist girl. But i don't throw up like her. don't worry. eeeks !

oh, you don't agree with me ? okkay lets sit and fight then.

yes yes religious feelings have nothing to do in modern creative field, music art literature.
'I'm Bad I'm bad I'm Bad' is not a very devotional song is it ?
or 'oops i did it again' has nothing to do with God All Mightees.

'be-bop-a-lula, she's my baby
Be-bop-a-lula, I don't mean maybe
Be-bop-a-lula, she's my baby'
is this love of God he is singing about Lettys ?

Modern times means last 100 years, beginning with the impressionists.
Ruth has posted Cezanne's apples, They are so alive, go eat them Lettys. And don't tell me about the Beatles. They changed the course of History. you were not there in the 60's Letty girl. i was there. wow ! Everything was new, where ever you turn your head it was a new wave. the whole thing, philosophy, designing, fashion, architecture, everything changed.

But in the past the driving force had always been love of God or Jesus Christ, both are one aren't they ? One name comes to mind is Micheal Angelo. There were many.
Bernini ? who else ? i am scratching my yeddu, yes there were many. yea juss lissen to me girl.

oh you don't agree with the worst coming out of religion too ?
Yes its the people who did bad things but in the name of God Lettys. yes it came from their hearts. but the driving force has always been God.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Linda Sue said...

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! I love your brain and your reasoning. I love that you lack the hysteria that usually surrounds this subject. Thank you so much!
Thank you also for visiting my blog . Yes. Autumn here is a lovely season, hope that one day you might enjoy autumn in an Autumn place on this planet.
Cheers!

Anonymous said...

wow! did not know about these changes BC/AD to BCE/CE. Why do these "jobless politically correct" folks have to come along and change the status quo?!? We are so happy in our politically incorrect world, including the “fire spitting Islamic fundamentalist” in this case. :)

Too many “religions” in this world! I am confused by them. You are right---it all appears like a bunch of myths and there has been enough violence, debates, discussions, books and tv serials trying to confirm or disprove these myths. Seems like a waste of time.

e2d

rauf said...

Quite true LINDA SUE, there indeed is hysteria surrounding this subject. i normally don't argue with religious people unless i am poked in my ribs or rather they avoid arguing with me. i never had any unpleasant experiences expressing my views.

If you study the practices of different religions it is not difficult to come to a conclusion that all the scriptures were written by men, resulting in complete male domination. That is one of my objections.

For instance in an Islamic court a testimony of a male witness has a full value and a testimony of a female witness has only a half value. None of the religions give women an equal status.

If you study nature Linda Sue, you'll find that the world is run and managed by the female species. Male domination is completely against the laws of nature.

rauf said...

You have written about it in your current post E2DEES, God Ram is named as a petitioner in one of the law suits. i am pasting your NY Times link here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/30/AR2010093002570.html?hpid=moreheadlines

yes it is like a stand up comedy as you have rightly said in your post. Indian courts are giving verdicts on the strength of myths.

Our Tamil Nadu Govt. Keeps changing already well established names of the streets and roads according to their whims and fancies. i don't know who sits and decides what is politically correct or incorrect e2dees.

Too many myths, yes, now we have entered an age of Corporate spread myths or lies. Benifits of Genetic Engineering is one of them. oh this is a giant myth e2dees. And don't forget the power of 9/11 myth. Which also is a corporate generated myth.

Sewmouse said...

Oh, Rauf.

You must know I have an opinion on this, as you know I am very opinionated. In fact, my opinion on this is so long it would be rude to make my own blog post in your comment box!

Maybe there was a Rabbi Jeshua (Jesus) in Nazareth who befriended fishermen and tried to get people to be nice to each other. Maybe over time, people talked about him like they talk about Chuck Norris now.

Maybe in 2000 years people will worship Chuck Norris and his miracles.

rauf said...

oh SEW, Fill up my blog as much as you want. you forgot that you are talking to an Indian.

We Indians don't have to wait for another 2000 years. We have living gods right here amongst us. Right now i can line up 100 living gods before you. i can parade them all with all their pomp and splendour, miracles and special effects. Since most of them are after dollars, you'll find a couple of gods, gurus and swamis in your own backyard.

Most of the 1.3 billion Indians seriously believe what they watch in the movie or TV screen. They believe that their movie hero on the screen going about helping the poor, defending the weak, bashing up bad guys is real god. they worship him.

Here in Tamil Nadu the state i live was a guy, a movie star called MG Ramachandran, MGR. i think he has been acting since the 50's. He had a massive following, and still has after his death. People believed what he was doing, all the good deeds on the movie screen was true. if i jump in between and tell them that this guy is just an actor they would kill me and they would kill me today. So this MGR guy took advantage of his divine status and joined politics and became a chief minister of Tamil Nadu and continued to be a chief minister even after he was completely paralysed before his death.

And Sew, my personal preference of a god would always be James Bond. And i would refuse to accept that James Bond is a myth.

intelligentwins said...

Well i have nothing to say rauf uncle! just that feel very pity who mistake "faith" for some form of identity to them! as you said faith can move mountains but not by bloodshed of your brothers and sisters of other faiths! FAITH -- is it a myth or not? well im too little to comment anything about that! but one thing i know for sure is that - A SUPREME FORCE DOES EXIST! YOU CALL IT ALLAH, JESUS, SHIVA..OR NOTHING..AND ONE CAN FEEL THIS ONLY WHEN THEIR EYES ARE WIDE OPEN WITH LOVE!

wildpic said...

mark twain said “sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."
i say that we get hit either way. stop thinking and you become god, be so open minded that our brain falls off. the warning of the highest order would state - never ever lookup for the meaning 'self-respect'.

rauf said...

oh sweet NEERU, It is nice that you are very sure about a Supreme force, and so are the 95% of the people of this world and they are more than very sure. That in fact is the beginning of all the mess we are in today. People have been very sure in the past. People have been very sure about the Sun going up and down the earth and the earth being very flat.

Faith is not a myth. Faith is how we cheat our minds to believe in something, fact or fiction, true or false. Where does it come from ? It all generates from our minds. i am a collection of many minds Neeru, we all are. There is no such thing called a single minded person. i may be wrong here as i am never sure of anything. i have only questions and have no answers.

When a mosquito bites me i often wonder if any supreme force can make a thing like a mosquito. Or a supreme force can be so cruel in killing thousands in natural disasters. Such disasters have nothing to do with the corrupt human minds who have caused misery, bloodshed poverty injustice hunger and suffering. i agree that all the suffering is man made and not God made.

rauf said...

SURESH, i watched BAKARA, its quite disturbing. Now i have no doubts that something is very seriously wrong with us humans. i used to believe that the entire human race is taking the rap for the evil acts of very few.

We humans can corrupt each other and have the ability to corrupt the animals too. Like Tenali Raman's cat was afraid of milk. Live and Let live is some thing humans refused to learn and they continue to be out of line with nature.


If God is what people say there can be no one in the universe so unhappy as He; for He sees unceasingly myriads of His creatures suffering unspeakable miseries - and besides this foresees how they are going to suffer during the remainder of their lives. One might as well say, "As unhappy as God."
- Mark Twain

dirt clustit said...

Oh Geea! your post would only be suicide in Boston where they.... sorry, I have troubled recognizing when I am being rude.

I like what you had to say.

One last thing reguarding your MT quote, I think you left out the word "not" and that it should be "no one in the universe not so unhappy"

maybe not furiously unhapai?

Nathalie said...

I'll second pretty much everything you said Rauf.
"Yesterdays belief is today's superstition and becomes tomorrows joke. Same will happen to all the religions of today." - I am absolutely convinced of that and it seems so obvious to me that I just don't understand how it isn't just as obvious to others? How come they don't see it? We learn about the history of religions at school, we learn about Egypt and their civilisation...and ? No lesson learned for today?

Religions are nothing more than a product of the civilisations that they are born in. They rise and fall with civilisations, nothing more.

So in the midst of all this, our only hope is to be good people. Or is that a myth too, sometimes I wonder.

Anyway, thanks for bringing the AC/BC change story to my attention, I hadn't heard of it. What a load of crap.

Nathalie said...

PS - the comments by your U.S. readers are frightening. The devots are doing well there. Yuk.

dirt clustit said...

I didn't intend to sound angry Rauf I am just a smart aleck. It was an awesome and I am sure you know that anybody who gets upset hearing unbiased facts gets upset for a reason and it might be that they know they may not be completely honest with themselves.

You were very generous with stating how much good some of these beliefs do for people. I really hear you regarding it being hard to have respect for people who choose to let faith have negative impacts on their lives and others.

It would be one thing if when faced with facts they were not upset by rational views such as yours. If they choose to she their faith as a beautiful magic. Like you said faith can be good when used for good. It seems to be when they realize they may have misplaced faith, yet refuse to accept that possibility that fear of the truth makes them angry. Angry people justify all sorts of wrong behaviors.

I respect your clear point of view, my first comment did not reflect that.

rauf said...

Thank you DIRT CLUSTIT for correcting me. i am still checking various sources for the quote, but so far the ones i have been to, the word 'not' is not there. You have to help me with the source of the original quote. and here's my favourite.

If Christ were here, there is one thing he would not be....a Christian - Mark Twain.

Yes indeed what i wrote is suicidal. Even in India. You would be confused about Indians Dusty, We have extremes of everything. We are the most open minded and the most superstitious. Most tolerant and the most intolerant. Many religions flourished here. India perhaps is the only country repeatedly invaded for natural wealth, fertile land abundance of water and 365 days of sunshine. These invaders brought their religions and philosophies with them. Like Hinduism Islam and Christianity. Yes Hinduism also came from outside India. The only religion which emerged from India is Buddhism.

It is deeply distressing how religion caused unimaginable acts of violence by the people who sincerely believed they were right pious and holy. All on the strength of myths they believed in. All the holy scriptures are full of gory acts of violence and destruction. But one cannot ignore the guidance it provided. All they wanted was you to be a good person. And to convey this simple message they made the whole thing so complicated. A 'good person' according to which god is the question.

Thank you so much Dusty. Welcome to Daylight Again

dirt clustit said...

Oh boy, sorry bout that Rauf, I was beinf facetious about the quote.

and I don't know what it is about religions that have beliefs that theirs is THE only true form of worship but the more zealous they believe = the more aggressive the strike out to hurt.

Seems pride and it's fragility once they realize they might have been a little off target (about what they were so vocal about others must do) Either that or fear flowering into hatred and denial.

I think Jesus would be an Anarchist if he were here today (and probably have four-letter words frequently spoken but as terms of endearment)

The world needs people like you Rauf. To say just what you did here. Like I said factual and generous with stating how much good it has done. It is important to use words gentle like yours otherwise it is easy to accidentally incite more destruction in approaching the subject in ways there is very little chance of no reactions of rage.

That is one of my problems. Saying things in ways that will most likely ryle people, even if it is factuak, is hypocritical.

Thank You for inciting this trane of thought

rauf said...

Dear NATHALIE, Sorry i have not been online much.
Daylight Again and and other blogs were in cold storage for a very long time. No particular reason. i was traveling, wanted to get away from the computer, didn't want to get addicted to the internet and most of all i was lazy.

Though all the religions sprang out of Asia, Europe has always led the way, in believing, following and tolerating, led in radical thoughts, and in throwing away the beliefs as it is happening right now. Europeans rapidly discarded the powerful Greek and Roman Mythology only to embrace new religions taking Europe through some very dark periods.

Europe has seen the worst of religion and Europeans have learned from it. But what is going on now in some European countries is a bit disturbing. At one end there is complete shedding of old beliefs and at the other they are tolerating fundamentalist elements coming from Islamic countries which they would regret soon.

Americans are quite innocent and gullible. they believe what they watch on TV, mostly glib tongued rich Evangelists. They are so powerful that the citizens choose to ignore scandals like Rev. Ted Haggard, the money scams hundreds of sex abuse cases in Catholic Church which doesn't seem to dampen their faith and continue to believe in myths. Their belief is money for the Church. Its all about money Nathalie.

rauf said...

DIRT CLUSTIT, This morning i posted a response to your comment before i could see your 2nd comment.

i see you are an aimless wanderer like me Dusty. i spend a lot of time in the tropical rain forests of south India, trekking observing taking pictures mostly of birds.

if i see a crocodile i stop and stay away from it and i know what it will do to me. But i do not know what a human will do to me.
He may help me or stab me with a smile. We are so unpredictable.
Religion teaches us to be good.
'Be good' is a bit complicated.
'Be good' of which brand ?
People are more interested in dramatic rituals than finding simpler ways to be good people.
95% of the people who believe in God are not fools Dusty. Their intentions are good most of the time. They are not aware that they don't need the guidance of any holy scriptures to be good people.
And i don't like the arrogant attitude of all knowing Atheists who go about calling others ignorant. We do not know how small we are Dusty. Our planet is nearly invisible in our galaxy and in a slightly bigger picture, our entire galaxy itself cannot be spotted. All our knowledge is completely useless and who is right and who is wrong doesn't really matter.

mystic rose said...

whether its faith or alcohol, it really doesnt matter if its only an escape from reality. but wait. in some ways, faith is more constructive to human society.

rauf said...

Oh this is good MYSTIC ROSE.
Faith keeps conflicts in mind at rest. We as individuals are a collection of minds that makes our personality. And there are always conflicts. Faith helps. i am a big mess myself. i am not sure of anything. So much of confusion in my yeddu. Faith can do the trick for me. i can find comfort easily. But i don't want that kind of comfort.

Faith has also proved to be destructive to the society Mystic Rose.

Faith or Alcohol, you know very well that there is a world outside you.

amaraentus said...

Hello Rauf

I have enjoyed thoroughly some of your past entries. You know I can't remember if I left comments or not.

Anyway here I am.
People condemn religion because it is fictional but really we live in a world of dreams -we want this and that because of a dream.Life is a dream.

I can give an account of what is happening in my canadian city.

Im an atheist but was brought up in a strict catholic setting.I use religion as a tool of meditation.I mean we require something to work with.We need symbols we need rituals.We need wedding rings and ceremonies. We can't live in a vacuum.
For me God is the symbol of peace love and light.And I believe in peace love and light whether or not there is some old man sitting up on the cloud called God.(I know there isnt)

So what am I going to do?Just sit down and say Hey peace love and light come to me. WE require ritual and forms of meditation.We require culture.

I am finding that younger people are adopting my views. Religion is eclectic. WE draw this meditation and that meditation from a variety of religions. And people are beginning to realize that religion isn't meant to be taken literally-it is a tool. Christmas means rebirth for example.

some people hesitate to admit this but deep in their hearts and when they are questionned for the truth they will admit this.

Religion is a strong meditative healing force but ofcourse it depends on how much energy we intend to give it that is basic psychology. We give it as much force as we choose and consequently its healing power will vary.

Its good meditation for love peace and prospering combined with charity and good works can save the world.

AS far as this violence and religion goes well ok that is a paradox and must be thrown out and when your are flexible you can do that.

REligious wars were in the past.
Islam is a beautiful world religion and you can't condemn it
because of a small minority of violent fanatics, condemn only them.

I hadn't read the bible for a long while so I went to the catholic bookstore and I purchased the new testament and they were out of stock to the old testament.The salesman informed me that catholics in general are no longer interested in the old testament because it has too much violence in it ha ha!


Anyway let me extend to you the catholic blessing- peace be with you Rauf.

amaraentus said...

Ps I read your comment Rauf about the 100s of sex abuse cases in the catholic church.

Why should that dampens people's faith?Criticize and discipline the guilty but leave the rest alone!

I have known nuns that give up their entire pay check for charity and the likes for priests.

There is corruption all over and the church isn't exempt.Weed it out.

It is shocking people here that teachers are being accused constantly of sexual assault to young students.
Does this mean we are going to condemn the entire educational system and all teachers?

Anyone that can't open their hearts and minds to the good that religion has done well that is hatred of humanity.Certainly you cant overlook the evil elements but Rauf they are all over!

amaraentus said...

Hey rauf!after writing in your gorgeous journal I was browsing a book on greek mythology-you know just to be different instead of sitting at the computer and I came across this verse and I thought hey I would like to note this in rauf's journal

Coleridge's lines-

The intelligent forms of ancient poets,
The fair humanities of old religion,
The Power, the Beauty, and the Majesty
that had their haunts in dale or piny mountain,
Or forest, by slow stream, or pebbly spring,
Of chasms and watery depths; all these have vanished;
They live no longer in the faith of reason;
But still the heart doth need a language;still
Does the old instinct bring back the old names;
Spirits or Gods that used to share this earth
With man as with their friend; and at this day
"Tis Jupiter who brings whate'er is great,
And Venus who brings every thing that's fair."

rauf said...

What a precious contribution AMARAENTUS Welcome to Daylight Again.

One doesn't need any guidance of myths, a book of rules and stories to be a good person Amaraentus. Culture comes out of a sense of security, interaction and local climate. It is very difficult to control people who live in very harsh climatic conditions. Law and security is most important for a culture to flourish. i will not think of painting my walls, write poetry or meditate when i am afraid of looters or when bombs are falling all over the neighbourhood. My first priority would be my life and the safety of my family and under those conditions i will become most uncivilised. So peaceful condition is most important for any culture to grow.


How fascinating Greek Mythology is, we call it mythology today but it was real for them. Socrates had to pay with his life for his radical ideas though. He stood his ground and went in a most dignified way. We may say that Greeks were not intelligent, they were indeed. Imagination is far more important and valuable than intelligence Amaraentus, this is what many say and i would say the same. These lines of Coleridge speak of such imagination, power beauty and majesty of Homer's fascinating narrative which made the Greeks believe in fantasy. This fantasy did not end with the rise of mono theistic religions, it continued in the art of many famous painters and sculptors. One of my favourite being 'Galatea and Pygmalion'

Thank you for bringing Greek Mythology into discussion Amaraentus, though i briefly mentioned in one of the comments above. We are indeed discussing myths.

When i tried to post this comment google says that it cannot accept comments of more than 4096 characters, ill'continue in the next comment

rauf said...

AMARAENTUS,
contd...

The foundations of mono theistic religion was laid perhaps in the 7th century B.C.E. by the king Josiah. And the name of a single powerful God of all 'Yahweh' was perhaps given by him. It was an attempt to suppress many smaller gods. It was like Walmart killing all the small traders. One giant myth overlapping many smaller myths.

You must have heard of 7th century BCE Draconian laws enforced by the ruler Draco whom we don't remember very fondly. He was a nice guy actually. Driven by the current situation of utter lawlessness, he had to come up with such laws. Same was the situation under the king Josiah. A state of utter confusion which prevailed in his kingdom with numerous temples of different gods perhaps was the reason for a new God.

So the stories were freshly written right from the creation, Adam eve, Abraham, Noah's flood, king David, King Solomon, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah (again the local prevailing situation). These stories appeared over a period of 6 to 7 centuries. They became word of God by then. Including the Ten Commandments. In other words Hebrew Bible, the old testament.

Now came the need for a new version of God. God of The Old Testament was too dreadful, violent and vengeful. He was by no means a loving God. This was the main reason the story of Jesus Christ was created. But they had to maintain the old God, The people who created Jesus took the old dreadful shabby and ugly looking God to a gas station and put him in a car wash, gave him a clean shave and a new colourful Versace suit and made him an ever smiling loving God. They never threw away the Old Testament though. They did not rename the old file. But the character and the behaviour of the old God completely changed. He became the loving caring God of the New Testament who came to the earth through a virgin birth and suffered for the humanity, went back never to return again. People still entertain a belief of His return one day.

And we never got rid of myths. they continue to play a vital role in our lives. We the humans never learnt from our blunders and never will.

What is wrong in believing in harmless myths is my stand Amaraentus. But there are far too many unpleasant and violent results to be ignored.

I feel that there are people who very badly need God today and very badly need the guidance of myths created two thousand years ago. Though it is very insulting to human intelligence. If you remove God and these myths from people's hearts like the Atheists hope, there will be far more chaos and violence in the world than what the history tells us.

Very much like the 7th century BCE. the current situation in the world in 2010 demands creation of a new God or a new Messiah. Perhaps a CEO of a giant Corporate. And his rival, another CEO of a giant corporate. The results would be a monumental disaster, perhaps the end of human race itself. There would be no one left to write the history. After 4 million years from now people of a new race will discover that we worshiped a God called Google.

Thank you so much for your valuable contribution Amaraentus. hope you are doing fine.

amaraentus said...

Hi rauf, I never suggested that people HAVE to have myths or religions to be good people- each one to his own to arrive there but people shouldn't be criticized for using this powerful tool rich with culture.
I noticed in your profile that you use Zen for meditation so you must understand this!

Well anyway this is my last comment on this.
I enjoyed hearing about the BC and AD. I hadn't heard of this.
Also I enjoyed your previous post what a beautiful journey.When you are a city dweller like I am it is hard to believe that people can live in isolation that way. They must be so much closer to nature so much closer to the gods.

I'm out o' here.haha See you for another post.

have a beautiful day filled with light and magic.

HUGS

rauf said...

oh sorry , you never suggested that. i said that one does not need any tools to become a good person..
Sorry again for misunderstanding.

oh Amaraentus fill up the pages as many as you want. Your thoughts are precious to me and my readers.

Greetings from very hot Chennai. hope your days are warm and colourful

(Hugs)

Peter said...

What a fascinating reading; your post and all the comments!! Here are all the thoughts an agnostic like me would like to develop.

The belief in something like a God (sometimes a multitude of them) has certainly been a major need since the beginning of mankind. The last centuries have given some doubts to many and these doubts are today probably more evident than ever. We used to believe and respect religion(s), but also royalty, nations.... Today - at least in my part of the world - we don't really respect anything; nobody (except infiltrated extremists) would any more be prepared to die for religion, nation ... or anything, except perhaps family or close friends. Haven't we learnt to doubt more or less everything, with right or wrong?

To rename AD, weekdays etc. seems hardly important. The weekdays in English is a nice mixture of moon, sun, Roman and Nordic Gods. There was a try during the French Revolution, but ...

rauf said...

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. said Voltair dear PETER. Many people very badly need God today and the guidance of centuries old scriptures. Commonsense is a rare commodity. Doubts have already been there since Socrates Plato and Aristotle. But doubts arose seriously in Europe in the last century as you have rightly said. Since humans are a very strange species, it is very hard for us to give up old beliefs rituals even if concrete evidence is given to them about hollowness of such beliefs. People very badly need some dramatic rituals to go along with their beliefs to make their lives interesting. Living is a monotonous process Peter. they cannot stand on their own moral strength. they need some support like a walking stick or in many cases a wheel chair. Religion is a wheel Chair Peter. People are incapable to live without it. They can if they want.

Vagabonde said...

I have enjoyed all the comments and your responses very much. I like the quotation of Voltaire you gave above, here are another couple of good ones by him: "If God made us in His image we have certainly returned the compliment." (Voltaire) and “As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.” (Voltaire)

Those French philosophers…and as another French philosopher said “The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers.”-Denis Diderot. Thomas Jefferson studied Diderot a lot and was greatly inspired by him. But another Frenchman has said something that is truly sensible: “Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” Napoleon Bonaparte.

dirt clustit said...

just to through it out there as a possibility. Maybe there is no written record of him (other than the religious scriptures) but maybe there is no historical record of him because as one man, he did not exist. Maybe that is why a couple of ancient records were destroyed.

Maybe we are pronouncing the name wrong and it is not Gee-suss.

Maybe the J is pronounced more like an H (like the Dutch G)

Maybe a man named Jesus wasn't at all what we were thinking and looking for.

Maybe it is pronounced "He's Us"

in each and every human no matter when the lived, what country they were born or the parents race they inherited. Reguardless what you beliefs about anything is, there is comfort in ourselves because she's us and he's us and we will always be OK in the end when we are not afraid to be ourselves. Be the real she you is, be the real he you is and maybe we wouldn't all be so angry and hateful, blind and in denial and we could save the world from unnecessary suffering.

We have the power to stop the suffering that is not necessary.

eh?

sonia a. mascaro said...

Rauf,
You wrote a fascinating text!
I read also the comments, very interesting.
But I am sorry I don't comment because my English is "weak" to express what I think about...

So I hope you have a nice week ahead.
Love always visiting you, my friend.

Anonymous said...

Rauf Uncle

"... there is no historical record of Jesus Christ..."
What records you mean?
Can you pl explain ?

Creation or Evolution?
If created, then why?

benoy

Anonymous said...

and
"...9/11 myth.."???
ben

Ria said...

I would like the believe in only humanity. I dont believe in any religion, and certainly not the kinds which divides ppl and promotes hatred amongst us. But unfortuntely most of the ppl around us need something like a religion to believe in an sustain in this pseudo surroundings.

I applaud u for writing this post.

rauf said...

Oh those are great quotes VAGABONDE, Thank you so much. Sorry for my late response again as i was away traveling on the west coast of India.

Now slowly and gradually our minds are opening to radical thinking but a century or two earlier it was a huge risk. Any one who had different ideas was putting his or her life at risk. Holy scriptures were accessible only to the ordained priests that too in the classical languages like Greek and Latin. John Wycliffe ( English theologian, Oxford professor) escaped the wrath of the clergy for translating the Bible to English but later on his body was dug up and his bones were crushed and thrown into a river. But William Tyndale was not that lucky, the man who translated and printed the Bible. He was strangled to death and burnt at the stake. Both, they made sure he suffered. the Spanish Inquisition was another sad story of torture and death of those who had different ideas. Thankfully we are open to any radical thought now.

Happy life after death, promised by all religions after a miserable life on earth, is indeed very useful idea Vagabonde. It keeps people going, specially the poor. Otherwise there would be October 1917 every day. Napoleon is dead right.

rauf said...

DUSTY, yes. There are many theories. Records were burnt. the whole library in Alexandria was burnt, twice i think. things were burning everyday those days. But the other records of the same period still exist and there is no mention of Jesus Christ anywhere. How do we know about Pontius Pilate ? And a man with new ideas new message, who performs miracles will not be ignored. If i perform miracles Dusty, i would like some publicity. i will not perform miracles in the dark without any one noticing them.

You may be right. Jesus perhaps was not one man. Jesus perhaps was an idea of several men who wanted to break away from existing religions. i think i have mentioned it in some comment above.

rauf said...

dear SONIA, your views are always welcome. You don't have to agree with what i say. Actually i am not saying anything here. i am not expressing my views, my ideas. i am just reproducing what the history tells us. in the comments i have given my views. I sincerely believe that there is a good purpose behind every religion. Every message gets distorted over hundreds of years, simple religions become complicated. Hatred and intolerance creeps in.

rauf said...

RIA, Hi, Welcome to Daylight Again. Not a pleasant place to visit Ria. i am sorry. i write about travel and places, i try to make it pleasant, but i would only be lying if i say all is fine, how beautiful our world is. i am confused Ria, i am not intelligent and i don't understand what is happening around and why i have to be here. There are people who have tried to understand and there are people who have given definite answers. good for them and for those who follow. i just scratch my yeddu and roll my eyes.
'i don't know' is the most frequent answer i give. And i am not a serious person. i don't take life seriously.

oh you have a very sweet blog Ria.
Happy Diwali to you and all those you love and to all who love you.

rauf said...

BENOY, Hi, How are you ?
Thank you for not being Yoneb.

there were two well known historians of that period. Cornelius Tacitus and Flavius Josephus. None of them mentions Jesus Christ. i think one paragraph appears about Jesus in Tacitus' account which is not very clear and this was found to be a forgery.

Creation ? what creation ? there was no creation Benoy, This world and the entire universe is a mad house. There is no known purpose.
The idea of trillions and trillions of galaxies is pretty ridiculous. And we are flying at the speed of 1,60,000 miles per hour. What madness !

yes 9/11 is a myth created by the corporates and those who control our food money and our lives, please check the net. just type 9/11 myth, you'll get drowned by hundreds of sites.

updated other blogs Benoy, portraits, some Nepal landscapes in Passion Green, been to Bangalore Mysore, came back, then again to Goa. took a train from Shornur, konkan railway, came back via Bangalore.

Nathalie said...

Thanks for your visit in Avignon Rauf, I always enjoy you being around. I consider myself blessed to have you as a friend, albeit of the virtual type.

Yes the evening was lovely. You would have enjoyed it. It felt like family, very peaceful, very warm and friendly.

Regarding your subject yes there are lots of gullible people out there - and people who don't think much. See yesterday's election in the States. See how they voted against Obama - do they think the republicans will serve their interests better? They have the best President they've had in years, can't they give him a chance for more than 2 years? It's jaw dropping stupidity.

rauf said...

yes Nathalie i wrote about it a couple of years ago

http://whitesroad.blogspot.com/2007/10/marketing-2.html

The American President is in India now and people here simply love him.
You can't expect political remedies to take effect immediately, they take time. And President Obama was specific in saying in his inaugural speech that it would take more than his term of 4 years for the changes to bring results. People should cooperate and be patient and give him a chance. They decide on what the media tells them and they make hasty decisions. It took 9 years for most of the American to realise that 9/11 was a myth created by the big Corporates for their own gain. Still many of them stick to the official story.

Anonymous said...

Sir,
Now I know that the Rauf ,whom I met in Chennai is a myth. The myth created by Islamists. Otherwise how a sensible man can write that the story of Mohemmed is written with authenticity,while hardcore Islamists themselves says that Koran and Sunna,and the so called hadiths were created by later Caliphs. How can a 'elder wise man' can believe that the corporates manipulated 9/11 when Osama himself says that he didnot expect this much destruction. How can a traveller believe that the history of a rebel will be written by the authority to whom He rebelled (Christ was a rebel .For almost 3 centuries christians lived in secrecy (until AD 325) While Mohemed died as King and Budha died as a well accepted Monk).
Sir do you also believe that moon landing is a myth?
(the net says so)
Sir dont waste your valuable time in sinking in these conspiracy Theories by 'human haters'


Paul S Pallippattu